gilaswan

The week started out quite busy for me, and still remains so, but Imma gonna squeeze in some time to... vent!!!  (just like my cat when she sulks)

I qualify again - I have no issue with Dalmi choosing Dosan, even if he might not be the best fit for her, because well, people make choices and live with them. And if Dalmi and Dosan were real people. What I have an issue with is how she is choosing him when it seems like her character is going against its own logic. There is something in the trajectory this story is being thrown into that looks like it has been derailed from its original set up. 

As @abs-oluteM and @Chocolate have pointed out repeatedly - and I echo their sentiments - the foundations of the story, the backdrop, character buildup, etc. all point to Jipyeong. Bad reasons and apparent deceptions aside, they all point towards Jipyeong as being central to this story. In many ways, I even see him as the lead. It almost feels as if the story is about him than about Start Ups. That particular storyline was totally thrown into the wind from the get go. So @HerManyShows, ya, you're right. We can forget about the developments of everyone else. 

Therein lies my disappointment with PHR which I am sure @Lynneshares - what one earth happened to her writing here? She's always had a talent for weaving in complexities shared between multiple characters because that's what it is in real life. People have complex connections with multiple persons, each having overlapping relationships. Yet she never "lost the plot" in the process. This time round, the plot has gone haywire and the story no longer holds logic within its own world. 

What went wrong? The entire time jump. It served no purpose.

• The Samsan Tech boys did not grow. They did not mature. In fact, they got worse because they came back (so easily) rich, conceited and just as clueless as before about how to really run a business. 
• Dosan returned bitter. The 3 years taught him nothing except to pine for Dalmi while feeding his anger. And he came back angry with Jipyeong. He's looking for someone to blame and it's *again* Jipyeong, his literal and figurative punching bag. Why even?
• Dalmi did not grow either. She is still impulsive, not logical and collected like Injae, and cannot tell the difference between personal and professional.
• Jipyeong did nothing for 3 years except eat all the food at Halmeoni's for Chuseok. Whut? Did he not make dinners regular at her house? He's practically the grandson Halmeoni didn't have, and for all that, he did not get to know Dalmi better? Dalmi is still uncomfortable with him? Why? He was their mentor, excuse me. She sent him 400 text messages. He wrote letters to her - did she burn them all? She didn't clarify with him? She didn't clarify with Halmeoni? 3 years, seriously?

Ironically, the one person with the least screen time was the only one who grew. Injae became softer after working with her sister. She became more independent and ready to cut ties with her stepfather and brother. And more ready to (re)connect with family. 

But everyone else? Who knows and by now, who cares? I'm still watching only cos I want to see how predictable this is going to be. We've already seen the very easy revival of Samsan Tech through the partnership of the boys and Dalmi's new startup (which I have to say, should not have Dalmi as CEO - Injae was right. She should be fired.) Now let's see how else the engineering twins will betray them. I reckon the ransomware could just be generated by them. 

Ooh! I got a tiger! I got a tiger! I love tigers! Happy 100 days! (late as I might be... )

The more honourable Jipyeong is, the more annoyed I am at how this is being written. Come on... Dosan is the clear jerk here leh... argh!!

So annoyed with episode 13. Hubby fell asleep cos it was that boring. This morning he asked me, "So, what happened?" I told him "nothing". The time jump was for naught. Hubby felt that the start with the SST boys on the yacht was just too pretentious and painful to watch, so he decided to sleep instead. Yah boy. Have to agree. 
 

What exactly was the time jump for? What did it serve? 

• Dosan, Chulsan and Yongsan can now afford vacations on a yacht in the Atlantic Ocean?
• SST can now afford an apartment by the Han River?
• All supposed developments between Injae, mum and stepdad and stepbrother summed up in a 5s news clip?
• Dalmi is still in Sandbox? Wae?? The startup started another startup and needs to stay in a startup incubator??
• Jipyeong did nothing for 3 years?
• Saha is still as curt as ever?
• Injae still not spending time with mum and Halmeoni?

No one seems to have grown in 3 years! Except Jipyeong who has grown more handsome, not that Dalmi noticed. Even if the romance is trying to get milked to the end, there's really nothing left of it to tell. As @abs-oluteMputs it, the romance story line has gotten tiresome already. Everything is painfully predictable now, there's no tension anymore. I don't see how anymore twists can come. The boys very easily decided not to return to LA, they will quite certainly replace the engineer twins in Injae's company. Saha will join them as lawyer-cum-designer, Yay... Samsan Tech is reunited. No? Plot twist? The engineer twins have been the ransomware hackers all along. 
 

*roll eyes please*

I'm also gonna keep watching for KSH, but as far as HJP is concerned - as a character you've failed, but it's not your fault. You've been written like that. Getting Extraordinary You vibes here... Can HJP outgrow the limits of the character he's been written to be? Meh.

@Lynne @40somethingahjumma @bairama @Chocolate 

On 11/25/2020 at 9:33 AM, Chocolate said:

Sorry, borrow this thread again. 

 

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This would be pure evil. Hahhaha...

Anyway... I’m up to episode 5 of 2D1N and he’s so good - that bit where he’s supposed to act like he’s been dumped. Wah. He’s really good. 

Why are they still in the Sandbox after 3 years? Do they not have to move out after the residency is over? 

@abs-oluteM While it’s true viewers like to talk about the romance, it did not dominate the storyline for Hospital Playlist, nor did it dominate for PHR’s other dramas. It is however more central in this show than the story about startups.  It’s centrestage actually, considering that’s the foundation of the entire web of relationships. 

@ryanallright as regards Kang Hanna and her lack of screen time, I realise PHR writes like this. If you look at all her “other” female characters in the “mandatory” cultural line of up of 2+2 for “leads”, the second female lead is always a flower vase. It was the same in Pinocchio and While You Were Sleeping. Do you even remember that there’s a second female lead at all in these shows? Injae this time has much more of a story presence (though not corresponding screen presence) in Start-up than any of the other female “second leads”. Ever. Don’t expect much. PHR has already given her more time than others before. 

@Chocolate I think your review is fairer than the one you shared. Hahaha...

I agree with you that the reason why the "romance" seems to be overshadowing the "start-up" storyline is because, well, that's how the writer has written it. Hence my post in Seonho's thread about what exactly this story is about - letters or startups? If you could pick a new title for this show, what would it be? Looking at her other shows, would it have been:

Pinocchio or Investigative Reporting?

While You Were Sleeping or Law & Order?

So,

Start-up or Dear Dalmi?

Just saying.

As regards "life stages" and therefore not comparing Han Jipyeong with Nam Dosan - well, the writer presented them exactly as comparisons. And what's wrong with that? As many people who think Jipyeong is the better choice because he is exactly older, more stable, more established (nevermind he's the actual writer of those letters), there are people who also think Dosan is the better because he is exactly a peer, in the same time of life, understands the struggles of trying to start a business. Which brings me to my next point - no, Dalmi is not the prize to be won, but she's also not been presented that way. Right through it all, she's the one who holds the scepter in her hands. She's not a damsel in distress at all.

2 hours ago, 40somethingahjumma said:

 

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But I'm not sure why Good Boy would be characterised as "the second male lead"  by The Swoon when he is so obviously modelled after Cyrano. And his arc begins and practically dominates half of the first episode. I don't get that. In Edmund Rostand's play Cyrano didn't exactly get the girl but he was absolutely the male lead. In the Western canon, the male lead has always been the one who has the most well-developed arc regardless of whether he lives at the end or gets the girl. He drives the narrative. The narrative is very much focused on his perspective. Just consider the tragic heroes in literature. Aside from Cyrano, the other one that comes to mind would be Sydney Carton from A Tale of Two Cities. 

 

This has been my issue with the way audiences of Asian dramas have characterized the "male lead" for ever as the one who gets the girl. In a fairytale... sure there may be grounds for thinking that. But is Start-Up a fairytale? From everything I've read, it doesn't seem like it. It seems like it's about the dog eat dog corporate world. A modern day battleground.

 

I think the letters are important because they say something about the boy and the man. His journey. He may have started reluctantly and at Grandma's nagging but he soon finds himself enjoying the process of connecting. He's had a lonely life and it's lonely at the top. It may have helped him as much as it helped her get through some tough times.

 

From the compilation video it seemed that the letters kept DM from seeing other guys because none of them could live up to her expectations. 

YAH RIGHT?!?!?!

So @Lynne @abs-oluteM and everyone else that has been ranting here about how the story's been going - agree, agree, agree! With all of your posts! KSH bias aside, seriously... story-wise, exactly as @40somethingahjumma has said, how is anyone a second lead with such a well developed back story? Just because he's placed in promo material with the female lead does not make him the de facto lead to get the girl. In fact,

Regardless, this is a thread dedicated to Seonho, and I must say, he's absolutely killing every scene he's in. Even on 2D1N. Every cut he's in is just better than the rest of the show. Hahaha...

@abs-oluteM NoooOOOOoOoOOoooO!!! Swoon listed Han Jipyeong as a second lead! I refuse to accept that!!! 

2 more sleeps before the time jump. I hope we get some good scenes from what happened in the 3 years and how each character matured through it. I’m still wondering what the deal will be between Injae and her stepdad. Mum’s clearly not gone back to him...

Watching ep 2 of 2D1N current season - do they really not get fed if they fail the games? So cruel! Poor Seonho looked so guilty when he lost rounds that cost the team food. Poor thing! I feel so bad for him!

8 minutes ago, -StrongTower- said:

I also wish that the writers will give us a glimpse of HJP's backstory from him being an orpahn, how he ended up winning the competition to how he has become in the present.  They owe it to us. 😊

Han Jipyeong spin-off!

Sekali the plot twist is the bro-sis relationship between him and Dalmi. oh no!

About Jipyeong possibly never having dated before... I find that unlikely. He’s at least 33/34 already in the show? And had spent time working in the US, according to Mr Park. If you see how he “coached” Dosan in the first episode on how to treat Dalmi, and how he’s behaved towards her - making sure she doesn’t hit her head getting into the car, making sure she’s sent home, comfortable in the car, opens her water bottle for her, etc. He’s nothing short of experienced etiquette-wise. I really think he holds himself back when it comes to Dalmi cos of Halmeoni. If there was no complication in the past, he would have totally disregarded Dosan already. 

I started watching 2D1N last night. Can see Seon Ho was really awkward at the start, compared to all these other later clips shared. I like these variety shows cos despite the editing, there’s a lot of their own personality in the show. And given what happened to previous members, the producers have apparently screened very carefully for the current cast, right? Seon Ho is just so real. I really like screen actors who are also stage actors, like Sir Patrick Stewart (of Star Trek, Jean-Luc Picard). They really know their craft and are not in it for the fame and glitz. Nevertheless happy for him he’s finally recognised at the level he should be. 

@abs-oluteM Totally agree with your rant. My hearteu! My hearteu! I'm so glad there's this thread where we can be blatantly biased. 

There's something about Kim Seonho's look that's not very "typical". Guess it's like what the Startup director said about him - there's a certain aura about him that adds to some mystery on screen. I think I'm gonna have to watch 1D2N now... hahaha...

Taking in everyone’s POV. Here’s mine:

1. Nam Dosan and Han Jipyeong slugging it out.

2. Dalmi’s (sudden) disregard for the letters.

3. Samsan Tech boys, Alex and Sandbox

4. Does Jipyeong even stand a chance?

At this point, I am feeling disappointed as far as story development is concerned. But 4 more 1.5h episodes is actually quite a bit of story telling left. I want to know more what will happen with Injae, mum, stepdad and stepbro. I want to know more about how Dosan’s dad and his colleagues will resolve their dispute with Injae Company. Surely Chulsan and Saha have some way to go still? And really, is that all Yoon Daepyo was for? To stand around and say encouraging words only? Such a waste of a good actress. 

5 hours ago, Chocolate said:

I don't want to watch already 

 

Hahahah... I was thinking that last night also. But Jipyeong look so handsome in the preview leh... hahahah... watching for all the shallow reasons now. Hee hee hee...

But seriously, that scene with Halmeoni. My hearteu! 

Made Hubby watch last night’s episode with me. He now thinks too that writer is pushing us towards Dosan. “Maybe in the process of writing his character, she also started to feel this is the direction to go.” Sigh. “If Dosan is the one, she will wait 3 years. Meanwhile, placing Jipyeong in the mentor position also puts a distance between them.” Which I feel so too. Realise he hasn’t made a single move all this while? Not even when he confessed to her his feelings. Now why is that? Respectful of her? Respectful of Halmeoni’s wishes? He’s the noble idiot here. And what’s the age gap between them in the show? 6 years?

@abs-oluteM This weekend's episode's pushing us towards Dosan  I'm so sad...

But preview has Jipyeong saying he has the right to prevent Dosan from seeing Dalmi  I'm so confused.

And preview also shows Jipyeong staying over at her house I'm so happy! 
 

Aiyah. This silly show.

I wonder if Jipyeong made a move at all in the 3 years. Stupid boy if he didn't.

Jipyeong did get more handsome in the time jump though. 

Looks like episode 11 got a lot of people talking! I reckon I've also got my fair share to say.

1. I don't think of the matter with Alex as a plot twist - that Samsan Tech signed away their company was an absolute show of naivety and (youthful) arrogance on the part of all 5 of them. Alex had made it very clear that he wanted only Dosan. He even said it point blank in his face that Dosan has proven his ability from COD to the first pitch, but he wasn't sure he wanted the rest of the Samsan team. Dosan simply wasn't listening, and I feel that he hasn't been listening to JP's advice from the start, whether JP was giving unsolicited advice pre-Sandbox or at Sandbox. If JP had not stopped them the previous time from stupidly giving those "investors" their technology, and JP - harsh as he might have seemed - they wouldn't even have lasted long enough to enter Sandbox. At this point, I'm just so annoyed with Dosan and Yongsan.

2. The twins - I'm not so sure if their willingness to ditch Injae Company is a trait desired by Silicon Valley. I think the scene was more there to be juxtaposed against Dosan - he's actually as good as if not better than the twins as an engineer, but he's clearly not succeeded all this while unlike the two because he has no desire to grow. He's hesitant to move forward and what tethers him makes him unable to grow. He cannot see the opportunities ahead of him because he fears challenges. And again, for me, that annoys me! I work with youths professionally and it is really very frustrating when you see potential being limited by such myopia and fears.

3. And so maybe that's another reason why Jipyeong seems more attractive to me - he is go getter like Dalmi. Philosophically he's a much better match for Dalmi on this point alone. Yes, life has dealt him with lots of lemons and no, he does not seem naturally cheerful unlike Dalmi. He's quite the grinch. Yet he does not give up on the chance to make it better, whether for himself, for Halmeoni or for Dalmi. Even for the Samsan Stooges. He wants the underdog to succeed actually. He just needs a better bedside manner about him, which I feel he is developing. The episode with what happened with Yongsan's brother has brought him to another level of self-awareness, just as all his pivotal encounters with Halmeoni. And therefore, I feel that if Dalmi does not end up with Jipyeong, it would seem like a betrayal of his character. He is her soulmate.

4. It does indeed seem like Yongsan is not the revenge dude. Sekali it's Chulsan.  It still seems like it's someone related either to Injae Company or Samsan Tech. Could it be Injae herself wanting revenge against her stepdad??

What I'm really looking forward to in Ep 12 - Jipyeong pouring his heart out to Halmeoni. Remember her telling him she wishes she had known him sooner so she could step in for him if people bullied him or crushed his spirit? His spirit is so desperately being crushed now. I'm certain Halmeoni wants to protect him like she has Dalmi. Oh, Jipyeong, uri Jipyeong ah... 

@abs-oluteMAgree with everything you said except the bit on Dalmi’s supposed noble idiocy. I didn’t read it that way. Of course, dialogues are snipped here and there for previews, so we don’t have the benefit of the whole context yet - which is exactly what they want, hahaha - but I read that scene this way:

Dosan is upset that Dalmi does not try to hold him back, but she clearly believes he should go for his own sake and even for SST’s common future together, but he’s too naive to see that. She has always been the more logical one. He must have said something to her that made her blurt out of frustration that he’s not the Dosan of the letters, else he wouldn’t be behaving this way. And I think it was also a verbal articulation of the realisation that came upon her. He exactly isn’t behaving the way she would’ve expected “Dosan” to behave, because he’s essentially not the Dosan she knew. Jipyeong still has a chance. 

More later. I need to step out for the morning. Duty beckons. 

My heart is breaking for Jipyeong still, especially after the preview. I suddenly don’t feel bad for Dosan anymore. Hmm... Was that Dalmi giving Dosan a goodbye kiss in the old Samsan Tech office? 

@bairama Maybe that’s the plot twist everyone is waiting for! hahahaa

Good morning Chingu-deul!!! 

Can't wait for this evening's episode, though it's more likely I'll watch it only tomorrow... Anyhooo....

I've been forcing my hubby to have conversations with me about the show these few days. Hahaha... 

"How can it not be Han Jipyeong??"

"It will be Han Jipyeong."

"Ya right???"

"Mm. The comparison with Wizard of Oz is a bit of a stretch. She'll have to choose."

Judging from Park Hye Ryun's Pinocchio and WYWS...

So I think as far as Start-Up is concerned, there are many more reveals and twists to come. One of them I'm expecting is who Saha is going to start dating in Samsan Tech. And then with Yoon Daepyo - feels like there's more to her than we know. That scene where she saw Yongsan's brother jump from the bridge has been repeated more than once. Why was she there? And this interest in who the girl on the swing actually was - did they put aside some kind of trust fund in her father's name or something like that? Jipyeong also still doesn't know Halmeoni's condition. When he finds out, will that bring about another change in the relationship between Jipyeong and Dalmi? And Injae's company vis-à-vis Dosan's dad's union protest. I don't think it's quite so simple. Is Injae's step dad fueling something to force her to return to run his company? 

@Chocolate Where’s the interview where he said there will be some more twists in the story though? 

@Chocolate Fingers crossed that these twists and turns are what we want! Hahaha... But you know, While You Were Sleeping, the plot twists and reveals were like  and it didn't even have anything to do with the romance side of things. That's why I love this writer. There's someone lurking around that's not been fully revealed yet.