Twenty-Five Twenty-One 스물다섯 스물하나 [2022]

[ktcjdrama]

6 hours ago, gilaswan said:

their swapped luggages that were meant for that trip together that never happened,

This was very sad for me... Couple luggage that never got used for the initial purpose 

[mademoiselle]

Well, I bawled my eyes out for several of the OTP's scenes. Like many of you, that breaking up scene at the tunnel was so realistic in representing a couple's argument. It hurts to watch them hurt each other like that, but it was nice to see them expressing their thoughts and emotions.

 

It was heartbreaking to see Yi Jin cries in his sleep, dreaming/thinking of Hee Do and the good times. I also cried along with Yi Jin as he read Hee Do's diary. It gave him a chance to understand her loneliness, even though it's wrong to read someone's diary, but in this instance I'm glad he got to. Their farewell scene was also another tear-jerker. I honestly thought when I watch it live that maybe they would try it out one more time.

 

Last but not least the scene that I bawled my eyes out the worst was their message for one another. It was sad, only because they knew the importance of how their existent is to one another. They knew/learnt so much from one another, only to part ways in the end. It's really sad but sad in the most beautiful way that they are and will always be a part of each other life who shaped them into who they are now.

 

They love each other so much, so I'd like to believe they put this precious love in a corner of their heart somewhere... as evidently that 7 years after the breakup, Yi Jin's smiles when he hears she won another gold and Hee Do telling the stylist her left side is more photogenic.

 

@Mouse Both of your posts had me in tears again – the very reason why I'm sad that their relationship did not work.

 

@gilaswan @ktcjdrama Hahaha yes to the scene as if they were signing divorce paper. 😆 I was sad for them, but I see the humour LOL!

 

I don't regret picking up this drama. I think overall it painted a beautiful story of the past—the theme does remind me of R88 where in the end everything became a fond memory. The lovely families at Ssangmundong part ways as time changes... as they grew older and their children grew up and formed their own families etc. All that we eventually own becomes memories, and even that will fade.

Edited April 4, 2022 by mademoiselle

[JenL]

12 hours ago, ktcjdrama said:

I kinda want to blame him too, but I notice it was HD who distanced herself first and determined for a break up. She knows what she wants and YJ is not able to meet them. In anyways, I think YJ is a person not suited for a relationship (mostly due to his profession), although he would love sincerely. I believe he would always be apologetic for the demand of his work, thus no matter who he is with, they would never be happy.

 

11 hours ago, gilaswan said:

You reckon? He didn’t tell her that he had applied for the correspondent position (why?) and he didn’t share his struggles - he was sinking into himself even though (IMO) Heedo was trying to reach out. I actually felt he was the one who shut her out. I couldn’t tell though if he had already determined their end but simply had no courage to be the one to say it first. When he came back and found their luggages had been swapped by mistake, he was going to leave it for her without talking to her (why?). But in their conversation, when she wanted to end it, he said to her that she had better not regret it. It’s like he didn’t want to break up but knew he had to but didn’t want to be the “bad guy” but actually was…? Haiz… Yijin ah~ 
 

I found Yijin actually very confused and conflicted throughout and it took Heedo’s clarity to call an end to everything. 

 

I also wanted to place blame on Yi Jin, but I think to be fair, Yi Jin had always been hesitant to get into a romantic relationship with Hee do in the first place. Not because he didn't love her; he really, really did. But I think he knew deep down that they were really different people and he was always afraid that he would hurt her. Hee do was always a force to be reckoned with - Given her personality, she felt like she could mostly control/ change the things in her life (even when things were bad), whereas I always get the feeling Yi Jin always felt things were outside of his control and he had to do his best to manage his feelings every time something happened to him....haha, there are 2 types of people in this world and I am a Yi Jin, so I think I understand his actions even though they did not appear glamourous on screen (and now I am questioning whether I have destroyed any of my relationships ). But all jokes aside, I feel like the way you view your locus of control in this world really shapes the way you control your feelings and actions...and on this point they had very different outlooks 

 

I also think that Hee Do tried to reach out and Yi Jin withdrew into himself which shows their different ways of dealing with grief, lonliness and depression. I think they could support each other while they were together as friends because the stakes were not as high. When Yi Jin disappeared the first time, Hee Do's reactions as a friend were much more forgiving and Yi Jin also missed her because there was no expectations for him to keep in touch. But as a partner, there are certain expectations to fulfill. And each needed some kind of fulfilling that could not be met by the other. When you add both their traumas to the mix, it is the worst combination. I mean, Hee do never got over her mother missing her father's funeral and that hurt overshadowed everything. But on Yi Jin's side, as a reporter, he seemed to be exposed to more external worldly traumas and he couldn't share these things with her. Really, I felt like they both needed therapy. 

 

So I guess honestly, I can't say I fault either one for the end. It was what it was. A beautiful, but short lived love 

Edited April 4, 2022 by JenL

[mademoiselle]

6 minutes ago, JenL said:

I also think that Hee Do tried to reach our and Yi Jin withdrew into himself which shows their different ways of dealing with grief, lonliness and depression. I think they could support each other while they were together as friends because the stakes were not as high. When Yi Jin disappeared the first time, Hee Do's reactions as a friend were much more forgiving and Yi Jin also missed her because there was no expectations for him to keep in touch. But as a partner, there are certain expectations to fulfill. And each needed some kind of fulfilling that could not be met by the other. When you add both their traumas to the mix, it is the worst combination. I mean, Hee do never got over her mother missing her father's funeral and that hurt overshadowed everything. But on Yi Jin's side, as a reporter, he seemed to be exposed to more external worldly traumas and he couldn't share these things with her. Really, I felt like they both needed therapy.

When Yi Jin said he didn't want to give her all the negativities from 911, I honestly think it was done out of love for Hee Do - which I find it true to his character in regard to how protective he is of her at all times. Her words couldn't give him comfort then because he's too engulfed in sadness every single day. He didn't have any energy left in him, to even share all this with her. And to talk about it again, I think it would depress him even more.

 

I think if Yi Jin hadn't had the chat with the firefighter, he might have chosen to fly back to South Korea instead of applying to stay in New York. I honestly wish I knew what was going through his head at the time other than deciding factors such as pay rise (his long time goal to reunite with his family), further his career as it is all his had with no specs to back him up, but what exactly was his plan(s) of Hee Do? How long was this stay planned to be? 1 year? 2 years? I like to think it wasn't going to be as long as he eventually stayed, which was 7 years.

 

In regard to Hee Do's trauma, I thought she had gotten over this when the misunderstanding was cleared between her and her mum, and also in one of the episodes that Yi Jin told her his view of her mum and she said it was cool to see her mum from another angle. I had thought this was the beginning of her letting go the pain.

[mademoiselle]

There have been spoilers floating about since last week from staffs. Not sure if you guys knew...? Sorry I couldn't read every posts in previous pages.

 

The one from DC gall was the most accurate. Everything was spot on for the finale episode except two points.

Spoiler

 

1) "Min Chae is Hee Do and Kim Oppa's daughter" — the only person we know Hee Do calls Oppa was the real life fencing athelete Kim Jun Ho.

 

2) Yi Jin is married, but who his wife is not shown.

 

Edited April 4, 2022 by mademoiselle

[JenL]

22 minutes ago, mademoiselle said:

When Yi Jin said he didn't want to give her all the negativities from 911, I honestly think it was done out of love for Hee Do - which I find it true to his character in regard to how protective he is of her at all times. Her words couldn't give him comfort then because he's too engulfed in sadness every single day. He didn't have any energy left in him, to even share all this with her. And to talk about it again, I think it would depress him even more.

 

Totally agree. I think he cared about her, but was just constantly drained, especially as he didn't want to be without empathy like his co-workers....but caring too much made him so tired and depressed. But I also get the feeling that he wouldn't have been able to share the horrors even if he wanted to. This kind of reminded me of soldiers who could not talk to their wives and kids after coming back from war. Describing what you saw would not do it justice because it was so disturbing. 

 

22 minutes ago, mademoiselle said:

I think if Yi Jin hadn't had the chat with the firefighter, he might have chosen to fly back to South Korea instead of applying to stay in New York. I honestly wish I knew what was going through his head at the time other than deciding factors such as pay rise (his long time goal to reunite with his family), further his career as it is all his had with no specs to back him up, but what exactly was his plan(s) of Hee Do? How long was this stay planned to be? 1 year? 2 years? I like to think it wasn't going to be as long as he eventually stayed, which was 7 years.

 

I also don't fully understand his choosing to stay either. I mean, I get that he felt he had a sense of duty. I think he wanted to share important stories for overseas koreans that might not be told properly. But at such a large personal cost to himself?  I feel like his staying for 7 years might have also been because of the break up as they appparently lived close to each other. Not that he couldn't move to the different city, but I guess he didn't have a real reason to go back except to unite his family.

 

22 minutes ago, mademoiselle said:

In regard to Hee Do's trauma, I thought she had gotten over this when the misunderstanding was cleared between her and her mum, and also in one of the episodes that Yi Jin told her his view of her mum and she said it was cool to see her mum from another angle. I had thought this was the beginning of her letting go the pain.

 

I don't think so. I think she was no longer angry at her mother, but that fear from her youth was never really quashed I feel. Especially when her mum questioned what the difference between Yi Jin and her actions were - you could see Hee do thinking to that precise fear that he could abandon her in her greatest moments of lonliness/ sadness. And then Hee Do brought it up when they were yelling at each other. I think realistically, most people never really resolve their childhood issues fully. Even if we think we do, there are often still unconcious links...otherwise I feel we'd all be rather brave and completely happy all the time! 

 

Edited April 4, 2022 by JenL

[JenL]

11 minutes ago, mademoiselle said:

 

1) "Min Chae is Hee Do and Kim Oppa's daughter" — the only person we know Hee Do calls Oppa was the real life fencing athelete Kim Jun Ho.

 

 

I have to say this tweet did make me laugh. I don't think it was any of them in the end. I feel like she grew up and met someone else entirely which is why we don't get to meet him. He's from a different time in her life.

 

 

I also really liked this tweet essay which I found comforting - Click into the tweet to read the whole thing. It's like 10 tweets or so.

 

 

[mademoiselle]

14 minutes ago, JenL said:

I have to say this tweet did make me laugh. I don't think it was any of them in the end. I feel like she grew up and met someone else entirely which is why we don't get to meet him. He's from a different time in her life.

Sweetie pie is not a Kim so he was out long ago. It is likely Kim Jun Ho going by DC gall's spoiler, which supposedly was posted by the production staff. The credibility is high for this one. However, I didn't think who her hubby truly is is really that important to the story-telling, the same reason why the show didn't tell us whether Yi Jin is married or showed his wife. Plus what difference would it make since we're all rooting for Hee Do and Yi Jin?

Edited April 4, 2022 by mademoiselle

[JenL]

8 minutes ago, mademoiselle said:

However, I didn't think who her hubby truly is is really that important to the story-telling, the same reason why the show didn't tell us whether Yi Jin is married or showed his wife. Plus what difference would it make since we're all rooting for Hee Do and Yi Jin?

 

Yeah I don't understand people's obsession with who Min Chae's father is. Is it because people just want Yi Jin and Hee do to have slept together? I feel like it is because people are hopeless romantics and want them to have had a kid together somehow 

But I do also see comments saying what's the point of her having a husband if he was going not be in the picture anyway (given that she broke up with Yi Jin because he wasn't around). So I guess they want proof Hee do is happier with someone else or he treats her right. 

 

But for me, it's as you said, I don't actually care because the guy isn't Yi Jin. I only know about Yi Jin and can only have nostalgia for him  like Hee do does 

 

 

[gilaswan]

Loved reading your weigh-ins last night @JenL and @mademoiselle, but was too sleepy to respond. 

TLDR: If the story ended in 2009 for you, the show ended well. If it ended in April 2022 for you, it’s open ended and you’re still looking for closure. 

Spoiler

Was it either of you who suggested that it might have worked out between the 2 if they had met later in life but then if they had, would they still have needed each other? I had (have?) a friend - we're no longer actively in touch cos he's moved to NY with his family - who, once upon a time when we were in the 25-21 age range, had mused on a long distance call why things moved in the way they did for us. We liked each other, but at different points in our very long friendship which began in middle school and lasted way into our young adult years when we had started working. But those feelings just never "met" at the "right" point. When he was single, I was dating someone; when I was single, he was dating someone. Years later in a chance meeting with his sister, she told me, "I could've sworn you guys would get together somehow - your name was always mentioned in our home!" I reckon all of us have our versions of might-have-been and on hindsight, better-not-have-been. We remained very good friends and some years ago I had the opportunity to visit him and his family in the US. It was a nice gathering and the very first time I met his wife and 2 kids.

 

I guess this points to what @JenLsaid - Yijin had always been hesitant to get into a romantic relationship with Heedo because he knew they were fundamentally different. Perhaps some relationships we started just should not have (and for me, thankfully it didn’t with that friend. We had come to the conclusion in that conversation, that we recognised and accepted our friendship was too precious to risk). If it wasn't because he was in the Sports team, it would have been something else. And eventually, that something else was his career and not so much the team he was in. The 2 also had past traumas/baggages that even if personally resolved through therapy or closures, would not mean that they did not have an impact on how decisions continue to be made moving forward. If he had held out and not wavered, would they still have eventually ended up together after his career stabilised at 33 and she retired from fencing at 29? I would like to think so. In fact, I settled down in the 29-33 time of life and I think that's contributed to a more stable relationship for me. But it never happened that way for them and by the time they are 42 and 46, these are what ifs that actually no longer matter. I do actually think Heedo is happy in her present life, and if Yijin is still in touch with her mum within their professional circle, it must mean the interactions are comfortable enough. This was different in 2009 though, where the story as told to us ends. 7 years after they ended their relationship was long enough for them to lead separate lives, unencumbered by their past relationship, but with memories still fresh enough that when Seungwan asked Yijin if he would like to know how his ex-girlfriend was doing, he said, "It's alright, I'll see it in the news". He needed in 2009 to still maintain that distance and likely would not have come back if he had not been offered the anchor job. That's why I reckon, seeing each other on screen for the interview was difficult still. 

 

And maybe that's why the obsession with who Minchae's dad is for viewers. I've read various comments online and for those who felt it was open ended (which I personally didn't think it was) or that it was not nicely wrapped up, prolly felt that way because for them, the story didn't end in 2009. Even the diary reading and the tunnel-finale was a snap shot of what was said in 2002 and it felt as if there was still yearning. But the show introduced Heedo (and mum) in the present day, and so people want to know, 20 years from that point in 2022, do they have regrets? Do they have those emotions still? For someone who has moved on 20 years into the future myself, I am one who has no regrets and no real desire to relive that past though I do remember them (some bits fondly, some not so, like Heedo). And so for me, the drama ended well because I identify with 2022 Heedo. But if you're still in 2009 wondering what will

happen 13 years later, then it's a tough one for you. 

So for the sheer fun of it, I think Heedo married someone from the fencing circle which was publicised (since Yijin referenced it in his newscast), and perhaps dad is a national coach off overseas for some match with the national team. Junho oppa fits the bill. Hahaha...

Edited April 5, 2022 by gilaswan

[gilaswan]

If I had to choose a song that encapsulates all that is told in 25 21, it would be "In my life" by Beatles. Lyrics in hidden portion.
 

Spoiler

There are places I'll remember
All my life though some have changed
Some forever, not for better
Some have gone and some remain

All these places have their moments
With lovers and friends I still can recall
Some are dead and some are living
In my life I've loved them all

 

But of all these friends and lovers
There is no one compares with you
And these memories lose their meaning
When I think of love as something new

Though I know I'll never lose affection
For people and things that went before
I know I'll often stop and think about them
In my life I love you more

 

Though I know I'll never lose affection
For people and things that went before
I know I'll often stop and think about them
In my life I love you more

In my life I love you more

And I reckon for me, the "you" I love more is in my chosen present. Not my forgotten past. It wouldn't be Yijin. 

[mademoiselle]

BTS

 

[gilaswan]

Still so nice but so sad to see their happy couple moments. Now that we know the ending, watching them shop for the luggages just seems even sadder.

 

And. I’ve never once heard NJH call Taeri “Noona” until in this clip?? Did I hear right??

[movingwheel]

@gilaswan yes me neither...he just drew the line.... hahahaha...i never knew that I was probably low key expecting that at least she might be the one whom he will never call noona.... but he had to call her noona...lol... i even did not know that i loved them so much that i low key shipped them !!!! my ship just sank.....lol...

[gilaswan]

@movingwheelMaybe it’s a special friendship they have y’know? At times he calls her Noona, at times it’s Taeri-ya… hahahaha… He needs to be seen to be polite in polite company… This rank and file thing is so important in Korea.

Aiyoh… I still can’t move away from these characters. There is a strange melancholy and heartache for them. Maybe it’s a wish they could have succeeded where many others could not, especially because they actually ended it well. I reckon there was that tinge of regret in both of them at that last hug. Y’think? It was the distance that made it possible for them to both move on, methinks. 

Was re-watching that scene where they quarrelled at the tunnel. That final affirmative breakup scene where Heedo yelled, “Did you actually love me?” I thought NJH’s change in facial expression totally nailed it when he looked at her and said, “Watch what you’re saying.” Like wow. The quarrel seemed very real. It was a very hurtful thing for Heedo to say but I can imagine if it were me, at that age, I prolly would have said the same thing too. I do agree with comments that NJH has improved tremendously through this role. 

 

I miss this drama so much!

[movingwheel]

@gilaswan i can see a different kind of friendship of Kim Tae Ri with Nam Joo hyuk. I mean yaa Tae Ri is super close with a lot of people. With Lee Byung Hun , she is so reserved , obviously there is huge age difference but that does not stop Gong Yoo. She killed Song Joong ki , literally being bossy around him. With Nam Joo Hyuk , she is way too comfortable like there is a match of frequency neither too bossy nor too reserved. it is just the right kind of camaraderie. we never see Nam Joo Hyuk being mushy with any of Co Stars, not even with Suzy despite being from same agency. He never teases his co stars much. He Teases Kim Tae Ri sooooo much. There is a video when they were giving interview and he teases her so much. She calls him cute and then she starts feeling awkward and quickly stops laughing. you can see it clearly there. check 6:02.

 

 

BTW , this is the first time I am seeing NJH this playful. he is very reserved generally.

 

[gilaswan]

Nice read. 

 

@movingwheel@JenL@Mizv@abs-oluteMand whoever else might still be here 

 

https://janewatchesthings.substack.com/p/oh-our-past-selves-the-selves-we?s=w&fbclid=IwAR20bFSRks87kl9P6zCIY6Ndh2-tq4SkFL-QDX2b4VU05drXPSeP9Z1uC2M

 

 

[mademoiselle]

Waaaaaaa why is The Swoon posting these highlights only now? Just seeing it on my Recommendation is sprinkling salt on my not-yet-healed-wound....

 

 

 

 

EDIT:

 

... and then I come here to sprinkle salt on you all

 

 

Mianhe... I apologise...

[bai]

 

HUAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

[bai]

phew. I didn't watch this following the prime time (released schedule) so I'm kind of left behind. Watched the finale and finally can collect my thoughts here.

 

First of all, danggg! I love your writings here about the ending @JenL @gilaswan @mademoiselle @ktcjdrama @Mouse

 

also you funny mood @Mizv lol & the heartbreaks of @movingwheel @abs-oluteM while watching it on time

 

@Tofu that iBarro ending easter eggs x WWW is really super cute!! My WWW heart 💕💕💕

 

this drama stirs. Really. Even there are minussss in my mind about the pacing, but 💯 I didn't regret to watch this

 

(+)

 

I agree with the writer seems hoping us to not focus in theories because it's more on the squad development as individuals. And the themes are actually awesome: say it toxic & healthy competition in sports, family in crisis, depression, violence, dreams & reality, childhood scars. And it's done with beautiful portrayal. I really like Ji Seungwan's arc in her 'I feel not ok if I'm being like this I want to stop & live my principle'. It doesn't give me nostalgic feels like Reply series did, but they up about these topics & I'm super respecting it (and maybe that's the exact goal of the production) 

 

(-)

 

I'm really alright from the start if BaekDo not the endgame because eyyy the title & song used is right in front of your face. But the thing that's super bothering me is the way theories hyping but the details are missing. It kind of creates a hole, the discussion heat because there are 'hints' but it just turns icy with the non-exist premise from the start. It is really let down bcs the hype is there lol

 

+ I'm kind of having this feel of Yijin's depression so brushed off and his struggles deserved much more development in the drama than to serve the reason of him & Heedo break up? I'm really afraid of the pace when it comes in E13 & the story still too much told in that time era, they could make it a bit fast forward without erasing the main message I think. I have this thought of 'they better hurry or the way to break up lead feels to rush & unsatisfying'. 

 

And yeah in E15-16 was really a rush. We didn't get to see much of their process as couple. But we got so many scenes where we see them inspired and fascinated by each other for the hella 14 eps. And in only one episode, they crashed everything. Where was the development of their struggles as a couple? You give us a break-up but the prelude is in rush just tidbits when the hints of 'relationship will not work' overcome one by one then bang you just throw it. So it doesn't make sense in term of storytelling? They chose to end the drama in uninteresting way. Maybe 20 eps with the pace of E01-14 will work with this kind of style

 

though beautiful messages are in this drama ofc

 

 

 

 

 

 

this drama beautiful messages will still be there in heart

[gilaswan]

@bai@ktcjdrama@JenL@mademoiselle@Mizv@Mouse@movingwheel@abs-oluteM

 

Swoon keeps releasing these! Arghhhh!! I miss them!!

 

 

 

[bai]

2 hours ago, gilaswan said:

 

Swoon keeps releasing these! Arghhhh!! I miss them!!

Twitter/TikTok Kdrama fanvid edits universe being sm advanced now for having loop of short (less than 1 mins) there are many amazing editors wow

and I feel the edits for 2521 in my tl kind of countless hahaha so yeap..

 

 

 

[ktcjdrama]

7 hours ago, gilaswan said:

 

Swoon keeps releasing these! Arghhhh!! I miss them!!

😅 Did they not watch the show/ending? I still cannot get over the fact that we the viewers were shipping hard for a couple that didn’t have a happily ever after together (keyword is: together) How could they do this to us???!! How cruel... I cannot wholeheartedly recommend this drama to other people without attaching a disclaimer. I cannot see myself rewatching the drama 😔

 

I know not every show has to be about romantic storyline, but this drama sell itself as so with the synopsis. If they’ve had promoted more on the rivalry and friendship of YR and HD, and the gang, I would’ve taken the romance as a bonus and not focus so much on it, but yes, from the beginning, I see this as a romantic drama 😒

 

[gilaswan]

@ktcjdramaHahaha… I understand how you feel, but I’m in the camp that feels there was no attempt by the producers or writers to sell this as a HEA drama. I think it was said quite explicitly from the start that there would be heartache. I reckon all of us (myself included) wanted to wish against it. However, unlike Start-up, the ending here made sense. It’s not like she “chose the wrong guy”. She chose herself. And that’s what works for me. 

[mademoiselle]

@gilaswan It's not really the end yet. We might see them at the Baeksang Arts Awards in May since the drama has been nominated for:

 

• Best drama

• Best actress

• Best new actor

 

... and maybe Couple awards if shippers work hard 😅