Alice 앨리스 [2020]

[LaLa]

Too many questions left unanswered and new questions appeared after ep 4. One questions is how Kim Hee Sun doesn't look different and keep staying fabulous no matter she is in 2050, 1992, 2010 or 2020. 

 

So is Jin Kyeom the child of prophecy ?

Who is the creator of Alice and for what purpose? Since almost everything so far that we're shown about Alice so far isn't good and has been misused by the clients... 

Too many questions...

[mademoiselle]

@LaLa I highly suspect the editing team have PS her since this is a pre-produced drama. Her face is the only one that was super smooth compared to Joo Won and Lee Da In (Do Yeon). Yes, I actually investigated by watching a 1080p HD version and look super closely on the screen LOLLL. It boggles me how young she looks at 43 years old so I just had to check - I need her secrets if it is not PS.

 

Edit: I think she needed to look young as well because of the time travel plot, so perhaps that's why they have to PS her...

 

Yeah, looks like Jin Gyeom is the child of the prophecy plus he did appear to stop time at end of episode 1.

Edited September 8, 2020 by mademoisellesia

[bluepebbles]

Seriously this show makes me spin my head a lot of times because of the confusion of time travelling x parallel universe.

Beautiful mess, and I love it.

@mademoisellesia @im0202 @LaLa

The last frames of episode 4 elated me when Jin Gyeom finally time traveled. Seems like we are having two Yoon Tae Yi's but how about Jin Gyeom ? 

 

 

 

[mademoiselle]

15 minutes ago, bluepebbles said:

Seriously this show makes me spin my head a lot of times because of the confusion of time travelling x parallel universe.

Beautiful mess, and I love it.

@mademoisellesia @im0202 @LaLa

The last frames of episode 4 elated me when Jin Gyeom finally time traveled. Seems like we are having two Yoon Tae Yi's but how about Jin Gyeom ?

There will be 2 Jin Gyeom and Tae Yi in 2010. Since Tae Yi time travels too, it's hard to say there is no 3rd Tae Yi.

Edited September 7, 2020 by mademoisellesia

[40somethingahjumma]

This show only goes from strength to strength. The latest episode is a clear demonstration that there's at least a decent roadmap as to where it wants to go.

 

I was amused and somewhat gratified to read Choi Won-young's Seok O-won mouth the very same lines that I had written about previously. All the predictably good stuff about "just because you can doesn't mean you should", "this is an intrusion into the realm of the gods" etc etc. It's clear that the show is presenting him as an antagonist to the prevailing Alice narrative although it's unclear how much of that hostility plays out in actual violence. Seok O-won, the head of the Kuiper Institute of Advanced Sciences, believes that time travel is possible. A charismatic man of science to boot. He is the first one from 2020 to state that unequivocally but he also styles himself as a critic of it. It's a dangerous proposition and it's not hard to see from recent events that he has a point or two. Science is a tool, neither good or evil in and of itself but in the wrong hands, it can go very very badly not just for the person who uses it but for others around them. 

 

My fascination with Alice lies mainly with its philosophical underpinnings and explorations. The big ideas of life, that sort of thing. I don't think it does anything spectacularly different from a lot of sci-fi and perhaps visually some aspects of it might seem a bit cheesy. But the storytelling is very good and what it tries to do, it does well. Besides I'm always a sucker for a decent police procedural even if it takes a back seat to mind-bending sci-fi.

 

People are getting murdered and not all of them are mysteries.  The audience is privy to the ins and outs behind the bloodlust. The ones that remain unsolved up to this point and the ones whose motives are known. Both feed into the overarching moral dilemmas related to using time travel supposedly in the betterment of humanity's lot. The debate is this: Just because we can use time travel to do good (in varying degrees) there are costs... and trade-offs. Do the gains outweigh the losses? Are the gains offset by the losses? It's a crucial principle that should inform all manner of public policy on all levels. This is a point well-made during this season of Covid-19. To put it in medical terms, "Is the cure worse than the disease?"

 

When the head honcho of Alice, Ki Cheol-an says to a defensive Eun-soo's mother that by killing her 2020 self, she has now left her beloved Eun-soo without a mother. The show allows the full weight of that statement to land on the grieving mother. A gentle rebuke of her blind selfishness. Not too many will quibble with the fact that she loved her daughter and she was still grieving in 2050 that her daughter had died at 17 because of a single event. She blames her past self for being lax and complacent and thinks she would do a better job equipped with foreknowledge. But as the scenario plays out, the murder is inevitably discovered because let's face it the lady is hardly a criminal genius. 2050 mother is now on the run from 2020 law enforcement and needs rescuing. On top of that 2020 Eun-soo is now motherless and Dad is wifeles and grief-stricken. The future for them might arguably be bleaker than before. In a fit of emotional rage with no one to hold her back, Eun-soo's mother commits an irreversible crime. 

 

The incident also highlights the difficulty of prediction. It's almost impossible for us mere mortals to know what will happen. It is possible to look at history and make a few good, educated guesses about the big picture of where the world is headed. That's certainly not beyond the pale. But on an individual level, it's much harder. 

 

With regards to Eun-soo's mother she was so fixated with the one event... the death of her daughter... that she forgot about the good times that they shared. In 2050 she was trapped in the past that was 2030. Revisiting the past could have been helpful in the grieving process but it was more about course correction which led to the overreach and then murder. In the end she swapped one form of grief for another.

 

The other so-called related moral lesson for all concerned is about how humans deal with suffering and grief. Again, universally and perennially topical. Again, this has long been the subject of science fiction. The film Equilibrium, a favourite after the manner of Fahrenheit 451 springs to mind. A stoic utopia "no place"... or more appropriately dystopia created with the underlying assumption that eliminating emotions is the only way to control human beings and gain a peaceful society. In Serenity, a similar project was also undertaken by the government to turn everyone docile except for the fact that it led to serious, deadly side effects to creating that brave new world.

 

Seok O-won's view of time travel is worth chewing over. From what I understand he doesn't believe that changing the past can change the present/future. What it does is create an alternate one. Essentially the past cannot be changed, only the future. So he seems to subscribe to not just the multiverse theory but also alternate timelines. The original timeline that the traveller comes from remains largely unchanged but at a certain point it branches off in a different direction due to the (inter)actions of the traveller. Like Star Trek 2009. So it seems there are no father paradoxes in the Terminator sense, just alternate selves living and making different choices due to different levels of knowledge. This could well be the underlying principle of Alice. 

That of course opens up other serious moral and ethical issues. It isn't just a case of going back and committing murder to change things. There is the issue of "rights" and authority. What are the implications for others when we do this? Who arbitrates this universe hopping? This is my problem with the Alice management. They've made themselves the Lords of the universe when they have no omniscience. This exactly Seok O-won's point. It's a power that human beings can't handle. This is more dangerous than a ghost story where people complete unfinished business before going to the afterlife like in Mystic Pop-up Bar. 

 

All good stories are ultimately about family in some form. Families are essential, a headache and often a lifelong grief. Interpret that how you may. But they're a human impulse because it's a place of belonging. No one should be alone. Both Tae-yi and Jin-gyeom end up being orphaned at some point and are adopted by kindly souls along the way. Go Hyeon-seok and his wife lost their own son and they did what they could to make sure that he had a home after his mother death. Eun-soo will now be motherless. Min-hyuk who is picture of stoicism to his colleagues is adamant that despite being the poster boy of professionalism he is capable of grief. He grieved and is probably still grieving for the family he lost. Or more accurately, the family he doesn't know he has. Jin-gyeom was fatherless... and then he was fatherless and motherless before moving in with the Gos. The little girl at the beginning of the show with the Alice book, Dr Jang's daughter was motherless apparently and then she was fatherless. She may or may not be the little girl who becomes the Tae-yi who grew up in the Hope orphanage later.

[bluepebbles]

ᗩᒪᎥᑕᗴ

ғιlмιng locaтιon

 

Episode 3: Park Jin Gyeom and Min Hyeok 's fight scene 

 

 

The iconic fight sequence of Park Jin Gyeom versus a bunch of guys in matrix suit lead by his supposed hottie dad Minhyeok in episode 3 was remarkable because of the whimsical location. 

 

 

This place is a cafe garden shop "Forest Outing" located outside of Seoul. 

 

 

There are a lush of greens inside the cafe, no wonder the production did not miss to make Joo Won stride the garden with his tarzan stint. 

 

 

The way to Forest Outings
From the nearest Gyeongi Line Baekma Station 
🚶🏻 30 minutes on foot 
🚎 15 minutes by bus (Baekma Station Exit 1-Bus No. 11-Get off at Meal Ogeori, Yeongsim-dong Village)

You may check their Instagram for inquiries. 

 

Spoiler

 

source blog

[mademoiselle]

New BTS 😍

 

New Stills

 

 

Edited September 9, 2020 by mademoisellesia

[bluepebbles]

Coming up tonight ! Jin Gyeom is coming back , and he sees another version of himself 

 

Spoiler

 

 

[mademoiselle]

BTS - Episode 4-5

 

It came out quick today. I just finished watching too.

[40somethingahjumma]

Help! I'm falling for Hot Dad Min-hyuk... That voice... *fans self*

 

Here's me hoping there's no Oedipal monkey business in the offing. 

 

Beware of men with long hair in leather jackets...

 

 

 

Edited September 13, 2020 by 40somethingahjumma

[mademoiselle]

Ep 5-6 are still really good and the mystery is unravelling itself nicely. So it's confirmed this is just another parallel universe, the Yoon Tae Yi in 2020 is not the same Yoon Tae Yi that Min Hyuk loves and is also not Jin Gyeom's Omma. Man, mind bending. So is this mean there could be a potential loveline between Jin Gyeom and Tae Yi? Right now I see no progress between Do Yeon and Jin Gyeom and that his emotion only gets stirred up by Tae Yi. Oh man I had wanted him with Do Yeon for a "normal" life in the finale. This is twisted and weird if the writer goes there. Since romance is not the main dish, I don't mind if we don't have it either.

 

Even though the main plot is really serious, I really appreciate the side-plots / sub-scenes with Do Yeon and Tae Yi. Both of them crack me up every time. Haha.

 

I had thought Min Hyuk knew all along that Tae Yi was at Hanguk Uni but seeing how shock he is himself, I guess not. I really love seeing how tangled he looks and how he keeps stealing glances at Tae Yi and doesn't seem to want to scare her more than she already is. At that moment I feel sorry for him. I'd really like Show to explore Min Hyuk more and bare his emotions to the audiences. I'm so eager for the day that he finds/sees either Jin Gyeom's wallet or phone, he'll immediately know Jin Gyeom is his son.

[LaLa]

I think this gif might express better what I felt while watching for ep 5 and 6 especially with ep 6 ending.

 

ctto

 

When I thought Seok Oh Won might be the villain, from ep 5 and 6 showed that he's not (yet). Jin Kyeom's mother reached out to him to solve the book problem and to prevent the things written in the book to not happen. And then Jin Kyeom's mom not even shocked when she found Jin Kyeom has time traveled on the day of her death. She could activate the time card but not Jin Kyeom. Is it activated with finger print or what? 

The scarf. I noticed in ep 1 (in the past) that scarf was lying untouched when the past Jin Kyeom running down the stairs when he's trying to find his mother. But how come it still laid in there if the future Jin Kyeom has taken it with him after his chase with past Seok Oh Won? 

 

Ugh my brain 

[im0202]

1 hour ago, LaLa said:

The scarf. I noticed in ep 1 (in the past) that scarf was lying untouched when the past Jin Kyeom running down the stairs when he's trying to find his mother. But how come it still laid in there if the future Jin Kyeom has taken it with him after his chase with past Seok Oh Won?

I think it’s because they are parallel universe. So  when JG travelled back to 2010 (in the version where he took the scarf), it’s a different (parallel) universe already...

Oh my gosh I’m finding it hard to explain also and the more I read my own words the more I’m confusing myself as well 

I find sometimes at certain parts while I’m watching this drama I have to pause or rewind and re-read what the characters are saying to help me understand... certainly can’t watch this drama when tired lol. But I am still liking it a lot.

 

@mademoisellesia I am hoping no loveline between TY and JG even though there is this parallel universe going on and the TaeYis are not the same person. I am quite enjoying their companionship with each other for now. Though it feels to me like 2020 Taeyi is starting to like JG? 

[mademoiselle]

@LaLa Yeah, I agree with @im0202's explanation. Remember when Seok Oh Won did a speech about parallel universe time travelling on last week's episode. That's what happened here.

 

Or maybe another way of explaining is:

Imagine time is a straight line and when we travel back to the past and change something at the time-point, the time split into a tangent creating an alternate universe that became parallel to the universe we originally came from.

 

@im0202 Same. I'm hoping no loveline other than with Do Yeon. I'm not so worried about Tae Yi falling for Jin Gyeom. I'm worried Jin Gyeom will, hahaha, coz he doesn't even know Do Yeon likes him and he only reacts to Tae Yi at the moment. At the rate this is going, he is more likely to develop feelings (god knows what kind) for Tae Yi than Do Yeon

[40somethingahjumma]

The contestability of time travel may prove to be the most fascinating aspect of the drama. It's also a new twist to Kdramaland's increasing macabre fixation with serial murders. A good excuse to raise the body count. It isn't just the tourism murders that call into the question the entire enterprise but there are other murders involving rough looking men with long hair and leather jackets who have a thing about dead cats. Who are they taking their orders from? It seemed initially that Seok O-won might be behind this and yet it is possible that there's a third party calling the shots. The contestability of time travel will undoubtedly turn it into the pandora's box that Seok O-won hints darkly at. It's a double-edged sword depending on who's wielding it.

 

The time card brings Min-hyuk face to face with the woman he loves and is stopped in his tracks. Is she his Tae-yi? According to Schrodinger's thought experiment... the answer is no... and yes. He knows her but not her as she is now but as she will be. But to add insult to injury he thinks she's another Tae-yi from a parallel universe, out of his reach. Are we all sufficiently discombobulated yet?

 

Min-hyuk is wrestling with the same issues Jin-gyeom does. Who is this woman? Should he care? As long as she doesn't have memories of him, she can't be his Tae-yi. Just as Jin-gyeom has concluded that the professor can't be his mother. Appearances, habits and personality aren't everything if they have no shared memories. According to the premise laid down here, her identity is not necessarily determined by who she thinks she is or what she does alone BUT by how she is perceived by the people who know her best. Tae-yi from 2050 apart from being a scientist was also someone's lover and then someone's mother.

The time card is the key... not just for accessing the temporal mechanism but the key to all those involved in this relationship web to find out the truth about the past. 1992 and 2010.  Min-hyuk's entry at this point in 2020 Tae-yi's existence suggests that the show might be avoiding an icky Oedipal scenario. Although the constant sparring between father and son might indicate otherwise. Certainly on Jin-gyeom's side, his interest in present-day Tae-yi is purely for the fact she resembles his mother in striking ways. He must also feel some responsibility for drawing her into this dragnet of inexplicable danger that grows even more inexplicable as the web of intrigue expands to include a whole assortment of unsavoury characters that have come from nowhere.

 

Read the rest here:

 

Spoiler

https://lilyroots4love.blogspot.com/2020/09/alice-2020-episodes-5-and-6-of-pandoras.html

 

[bluepebbles]

@40somethingahjumma @im0202 @mademoisellesia I agree with you please show don't even think of diving into the complexities of Tae Yi liking Jin Gyeom even if the chemistry of both actors are on fire. I felt weird just a mere thought of it.  Leave Sophocles alone please 

 

I still have to watch episode 6, so leather jacket to me is daddeh Minhyuk for the win 

 

 

With the time travelling, this reminds me of Flash and a bit of Harry Potter's reference, where the future should not meet with the person if you will go back into the past but the intertwined paralleled universe is making the time travelling complicated. 

 

What I also love about Alice is the mother - son arc. I dont know if it 's just because of Joowon's ability to express emotions 

 

[-StrongTower-]

Ive been avoiding the drama forum since last week since Im still catching up with all the dramas. Woott! Finally watching the latest eps

 

So 2020 TaeYi is starting to like JG. Arrgghh. Hahaha. That's why I asked after ep2 who the OTP is cause I had a hunch then that TY2020 and JG eomma are two different characters. I still find it weird for them to end up together. Daddy MinHyeok and TaeYi do have more chemistry. And DoYeon would be so brokenhearted. Please PDnim dont u dare create a loveline with her and JG's partner aka muscle guy aka KimBokJoo's first love. Hahaha

 

Anyway so much of the loveline, the drama aint about that. What confuses me with this kind of dramas is the parallel universe theory. There is time traveling but a parallel universe is also set in place.  My brain is too slow to understand these kinds of things. How do they work? Haha

The JG2020 met with the Director2010. Wouldnt it have altered the present? 

 

So far my thoughts/questions to ponder on:

1. Why did Female leader of Alice told Mjnhyeok that TY married someone else and had a good life?

2. Police detective aka JG father seems suspicious. I think he knows something more. Didnt he mention he had a child before but died? Wondered what happened to his child. And was it on Ep1 when the blue/red (?? Haha) moon appeared, the night JG eomma died, he was caught running, Director also.

3. What happened to child in Ep1? She held the last page of the book of the prophecy. She must play an important part in the drama. Wonder which actress is playing the role.

4. Alice leader is also suspicious. Or am I just being suspicious of everyone. Hahaha

 

I think I still have a lot of questions but will reserve them for later. Still my problem with the drama is the same. 

[mademoiselle]

BTS

 

[40somethingahjumma]

On 9/16/2020 at 4:41 PM, -StrongTower- said:

 

 

So 2020 TaeYi is starting to like JG. Arrgghh. Hahaha. That's why I asked after ep2 who the OTP is cause I had a hunch then that TY2020 and JG eomma are two different characters. I still find it weird for them to end up together. Daddy MinHyeok and TaeYi do have more chemistry. And DoYeon would be so brokenhearted. Please PDnim dont u dare create a loveline with her and JG's partner aka muscle guy aka KimBokJoo's first love. Hahaha

 

 

 

If they hadn't introduced Min-hyuk at this point and make him show his face to Tae-yi, I might have thought that they are setting something up between TY and Jin-gyeom.  But I don't think they are. Especially because both Min-hyuk and Jin-gyeom are interacting on the same timeline. Min-hyuk is still the same one who loved Tae-yi and fathered Jin-gyeom.

 

Even though the parallel universe theory that was posited by Seok O-won makes sense on some level, it doesn't seem like that's what going on here. For some reason possibly because of what Tae-yi did in 1992, the parallel universe collapsed (and the assumptions held by those in the know) and now they're all working from the same timeline. It's the great paradox. This Tae-yi seems to be the past self of his mother.

[mademoiselle]

BTS

 

[bluepebbles]

ᗩᒪᎥᑕᗴ

ғιlмιng locaтιon

 

Episode 6: Park Jin Gyeom Seo O- Won - Yakhyeon Catholic Church

 

 

Spoiler

 

This church is famous for kdrama filming location including scenes from The Fiery Priest , The Guest and The Priests (film). This is Korea’s first church built in modern brick construction, completed in 1892. I went here around the afternoon, around 2-3 PM during spring time, so the weather was just fine for stroll. Beside the church was a mini conservatory where you can have a view of the Gyeongbokgung Palace.  After visiting this church, you can also have a walk at Seoul's sky park (Seoullo 7017) near the Seoul Station/Seoul square . It has a variety of trees and plants. You can also have a coffee break while waiting for the sunset. 

 

 

 

 

 

How to get here:

 

Take Seoul Subway Line 2, to Chungjeongno Station (Green), take Exit 5. 
Walk 5-10 minutes ( you will have to cross the skypark). you'll see banners with priest's photo (this is the back entrance).  
Take the uphill road going to the church. I recommend to use kakao map .

Yakhyeon Catholic Church (Jungnimdong Catholic Church, St Joseph Church)
서울 중구 중림동 149-2 Jungnim-dong 149-2, Jung-gu, Seoul, Seoul
(서울 중구 중림로 27) 27 Jungnyim-no, Jung-gu, Seoul

 

 

 

 

[mademoiselle]

BTS for tonight's episode already out!

 

[40somethingahjumma]

I have mixed feelings about what's going in the last 2 episodes. For the most part I still like it and I'm in admiration of the ambition behind it. Furthermore I still enjoy the level of complexity that's gone into the storytelling with the myriad of agendas. Despite the show's flirtations with a possible loveline between 2020 Tae-yi and Jin-gyeom, I don't think it's going to go there. It's clear the show plays with viewer expectations. It uses familiar tropes such as cohabitation and increased concern and turning them on its head. I think it's being rather mischievous. Personally despite all the familiar camera work that usually accompanies romantic elements in K dramas showing up here, I don't really buy their dynamic as romance. I don't see it in their chemistry.

 

As far as I can tell Jin-gyeom's reactions to Tae-yi are based on the fact that she could be a younger version of his mother. I don't think he has "romantic" feelings for her at least from what I've been witness to. The start of the episode makes that reasonably clear. JG regrets very much that he couldn't protect his mother... not just once but twice. He is uncertain if she is his mother because the personalities seem different to him but just in case she is younger mum, he is determined to keep a sharp eye on her lest she dies under his watch. It's one thing that she died when he was a schoolboy, it's another to witness her death now that he's an experienced officer.

 

Another reason why I don't think romance is on the card for TY 2020 and JG is the fact that Do-yeon continually interjects/ interrupts/ disrupts as she did in Episode 8 during the karaoke frolicks. Now, the interesting question is why. Some things obviously are or aren't meant to be on some level. Tae-yi is a constant. We know that from all the different versions. But Jin-gyeom is a variable or anomaly that Future Tae-yi introduced when she remained in 1992. His entire personality is an anomaly as well. Do-yeon is a friend who wants to be more than a friend. He consistently says that she's just a friend but then does things that show that she's more than a friend... she's closer to family. His mind is still grappling with all the complexities in human interaction and what that means. Moreover Tae-yi gave birth to him with the full knowledge of the Book of the Prophecy (except the last page) doing a 180 regarding time travel. JG's job is to end time travel... in all likelihood because things go wobbly down the track and not to mention the serious moral and ethical infringements that result.

 

So there are 3 known agendas at play. The first is the psychotherapy time travel tourism as represented by the Alice crowd. The second, is headed by the mysterious Teacher who seems determined to kill TY presumably because future TY reads the forbidden book and wants to end time travel. The third, helmed by Seok O-won is trying to end time travel in earnestness because he's read the book and it spells "apocalypse". I imagine that Ahjussi Cop (Kim Sang-ho) has thrown his lot in with the ones who thinks time travel should continue. He hasn't killed O-won so that suggests perhaps he has completely sold himself to the highest bidder.

 

To my mind romance is the least interesting aspect to this show. I'm not icked out by the innuendo necessarily but it's the least compelling aspect of the show. Does it detract from all the scifyi stuff? It could although so far they're doing a good job keeping that to a minimum. 

 

Personally I'm rooting for Min-hyuk particularly because he is a more complex figure than first meets the eye. He bought into the Alice project lock stock and barrel. Despite having reservations. That tells me that there's an idealist lurking beneath the cool, aloof exterior. He was obviously more deeply hurt by TY's departure than he let on initially. He thought she moved on even if he never really did. I'm really looking forward to his Empire Strikes Back Darth Vader announcement... 

 

I am fascinated too that there are different routes in time travelling. Authorized and unauthorized routes? Or just different agencies.? Wonder how that works? Different wormholes? 

 

My problem with the multiverse theory has always been about returning to the point of origin. How is that achieved? If there are that many alternate timelines at play because of all the time travelling that's going on, how does anyone know where to go back to and how. It's one thing to create an alternate timeline, it's another thing to leave it and then return to it. If there are so many of them, which one is the original or prime line? If parallel universes are really at play here... I have serious doubts about that... why does Min-hyuk keep bumping into the same Jin-gyeom who is the son of Future Tae-yi that he travelled with to 1992 and sliced off Lee Se-hoon's leg. That's why I'm not convinced that we are dealing with a multiverse scenario.

[mademoiselle]

BTS

 

The Show toy with the idea of Joo Won x Kim Hee Sun last week and then SBS gives us a Kwak Si Yang x Kim Hee Sun's cut 😏

 

Edited September 23, 2020 by mademoisellesia

[mademoiselle]

New stills

Uh-oh, why did Jin Gyeom pass out?

And Tae Yi still didn't find out about another Tae Yi

NEWS - Alice will not broadcast on Oct 2 and 3 because of Chuseok!

Edited September 26, 2020 by mademoisellesia