Mouse 마우스 [2021]

[Tothestars]

On 3/25/2021 at 8:36 AM, Seung-Min said:

Fresh from watching Ep. 7, I’m not so sure what to say..haha what irritates me is how PD Choi can easily access supposed to be highly restricted room that stores valuable evidences. I don’t like this kind of writer’s move.

 

Yeah, the door opened just like that, even BR has to remember the passcode to enter the room, they explained it, but PD Choi?... Lol.

 

5 hours ago, mademoiselle said:

Few pages back I said I would be OK if Seung Gi plays a psychopath. However I think I've grown to like Ba Reum - the kind person that he is, I find myself screaming at the screen "Nooooo~" when Ba Reum has flashbacks of himself being the kindergaten kid or him beating the crap out of Sung Sun Ho

 

Theories:

1. Those memories might really BR's, he is the serial killer and the kid feed the mouse the snake. But seems that although we said he is the serial killer /psychopath, he lost his memories but his behaviour is much the same with before the operation.

 

2. HSJ implanted some of YH's brain to BR lol... Dont know about current neuro surgeon technology, but maybe they can do it lol. But BR only get smarter but nothing much affect his daily behaviour. 

 

3. BR pretends to have memory loss. He is still the same old BR, psycho but mutated like Detective Park said.

 

4. Choi PD is Detective Park's missing daughter, she is survive but became HSJ's  accomplice, that's why she said to Jaepil, why he lied. I dont know why she didnt come back to her family after HSJ get arrested though.

 

Questions:

1. So Choi PD is the girl who lured the lady in the snow? And let HSJ killed her. So she is older than Yo Han, and about the same age with Go Muchi.

 

2. I forgot about OBY, is she one of the children in the past? Or her case is different? I forgot about her case, never been fully explained right? Or i missed it?

 

3. The girl who killed the mouse, she stepped on the mouse and crushed it, she might Choi PD? She is older than BR and YH. She might turned into serial killer, after helping HSJ killed lady in snow and maybe killed Detective Park's son and girl. Since she wear Detective Park's girl bracelet and Detective Park's wife recognized it.

Edited March 26, 2021 by Tothestars

[Darkarcana]

10 minutes ago, Tothestars said:

2. I forgot about OBY, is she one of the children in the past? Or her case is different? I forgot about her case, never been fully explained right? Or i missed it?

I think now we know that her case is different it has to do with sexual assault because of that stalker

 

11 minutes ago, Tothestars said:

he lost his memories but his behaviour is much the same with before the operation.

A lot do say that because people left and right are telling him that he is good, so he becomes good. Therefore in total denial that these memories are from him. But we have to remember that he forgot what he did to the bird so....maybe he even forgets his personality? Idk lol

 

@mademoisellei think we have enough evidence to say that the ending is a dud. Haha unless Choi ran cheat us

[Tothestars]

2 minutes ago, Darkarcana said:

A lot do say that because people left and right are telling him that he is good, so he becomes good. Therefore in total denial that these memories are from him. But we have to remember that he forgot what he did to the bird so....maybe he even forgets his personality? Idk lol

 

Hmmm make sense though. But the bird case was only few minutes but he totally forgot? So i assumed he is pretending.

 

One thing for sure the major minus in this drama. Someone who get brain surgery but didnt shave his hair??? Either LSG didnt want to be bald, or the production crew chose to ignore this fact. BR had 2-3 surgeries right? But the hair is still there? Seriously?

 

[Darkarcana]

19 hours ago, Tothestars said:

Hmmm make sense though. But the bird case was only few minutes but he totally forgot? So i assumed he is pretending.

 

It’s very interesting on how he somehow hates something that he love. It really makes you wonder like, is this for real that he had a change in his brain thus not liking it, or is he faking it all these time pre surgery that he hates it but he acts like he loves it.

[ktcjdrama]

23 hours ago, Tothestars said:

 

2. I forgot about OBY, is she one of the children in the past? Or her case is different? I forgot about her case, never been fully explained right? Or i missed it?

She is a victim of another serial criminal. The one who just got released from prison. I think it has no ties to HH’s work, although that is yet to be determined since we’re not even halfway through the show yet. No full explanation yet what happened in the past except that the criminal still obsessed with her and having some plans to get to her again. 
 

What I want to know also is why the crooked police lied about killing Det.Park’s daughter. That’s such a big lie and a big blow to Park.
 

The little girl helping to lure the lady on snowy night was definitely Choi PD, but I am super curious why she became an accessory. I don’t think she is the same girl who stepped on the mouse though, and different child actress. We might be introduced to another psychopath yet. 
 

I personally believe BR is not HH’s son and not a psychopath killer. I cannot think of a ML being the not-protagonist in Kdramas but of course there could always be a first. I think there is a brain transplant, affecting BR’s childhood memory. But we have to wait for his picture from Aunt to confirm whether he is the little kid in museum or not. Although brain transplant in RL is not yet possible, this is fiction so writer can just assume that it has become possible 😅

[Tothestars]

49 minutes ago, ktcjdrama said:

The little girl helping to lure the lady on snowy night was definitely Choi PD, but I am super curious why she became an accessory. I don’t think she is the same girl who stepped on the mouse though, and different child actress. We might be introduced to another psychopath yet. 

 

This! I was so blown up when watchinf YH being terminated... But at the same time, one suspect is eliminated, so there is only one or two left which is BR, or maybe Shin (most least though), but then we were served by another pyschopath candidate, choi pd... Sigh...

 

I wonder if all these years she befriend with BR, which:

1. The kid feed the mouse to the snake is BR

2. The girl who stepped on the mouse is Choi PD.

3. The girl who lure and helping tied all the victims is choi pd and she is Det Park's daughter.

 

And they both become mastermind and accomplice, dont know who is who. 

 

I think i have to think as crazy as we can to equal the script writer lol.

[ktcjdrama]

3 minutes ago, Tothestars said:

 

I think i have to think as crazy as we can to equal the script writer lol.

Need a brain transplant? We should summon Dr.Han 

[Warm Paws]

Thoughts moving forward after ep8:

 

Spoiler

I’ve always believed that YH = kid in yellow = JH = HH’s son = JE’s son = Deadly Sins killer since I didn’t like the thought of switched childbirth as BR and YH’s background, and all clues (for me at least) alludes to the statement above. All theories say that BR = HH’s son requires some sort of childbirth switch, or JE having to adopt another child (YH) after JH’s incident with the step family, and I didn’t want to buy into it.

 

After ep 8, I’d rather go with the theories that BR = kid in yellow = JH = HH’s son = JE’s son = Deadly Sins killer, than have another sci-fi twist that somehow it is YH’s memories that BR is remembering because of whatever they did with BR’s surgery. 

 

Clues that I think show that BR has been the/a killer all along:

• Even if something happened with his head that triggered/ unrestrained his psychopathy/genius, it doesn’t explain why he suddenly got athletic.
• He’s now very tolerant to the grotesque, blood, death or whatever.
• Of course, the two memories; child in yellow and beating up the boxer - both first pov.

Clues that some changes in BR are just side-effects?:

• Change in food preference. I don’t know much about science, but I don’t see why BR would fake liking soybean paste stew, I mean, not only fake liking, but he can’t stand the smell at all post-surgery. Not really sure the significance of this revelation is for now. If they somehow show that YH hates that too then.... 🙃

Clues that I think show that BR is good:

• From what I see, we can still find pre-surgery BR in post-surgery BR. Unless of course, his immediate instinct is to pretend and manipulate so that’s why his attitude is pretty much the same. I don’t want to believe that he’s faking his amnesia cause what’s the point of showing his memories returning and his head aching even when he is by himself.

I still don't want to believe that BR intentionally wanted YH to smash his head, especially to that extent just to pin all the blame on YH. If he truly is the killer and even proclaimed himself as god, then I don't think he'll intentionally allow anything to happen to himself to potentially lose his best asset, which is his genius mind. But I'm no genius, so I don't know how a genius could have planned everything, but maybe he can. If post surgery BR can read people that well, then maybe he can certainly manipulate everyone to do everything as part of his master plan.

 

 

Sung Ji-Eun (HH's wife)

Spoiler

• When did JE collapse/ lose consciousness that she wound up in the hospital at the start of ep7? After he talked with YH?
• What are her sins?
• Why does she not believe that YH has done bad things? 
• Her reactions so far point to her believing that YH being innocent. Either she really thinks so, or she's still just in denial.

Choi Hong-Ju

Spoiler

• Her character completely changed after episode 6. Her words and actions seem to be conflicting.
• Why abort the baby if she things that YH is good?
• How did she know to go to the place with the tapes? Are we assuming that she's the one that sent it to the govt lady?
• And like everyone else has pointed out, she seems to have free access to all the key places right now 🤣
• A lot of different scenes show her (possible) background, but what her motive is is up in the air at this point.

 

Sung Yo-Han

Spoiler

• This guy needs to know how to properly burn evidence (assuming he's grandma's killer)
• Which crimes did he commit? (if any)
• Who’s blood is on his car and at the abandoned hospital?
• Police searched his house and “found nothing”? Not even BR’s pictures? So did BR just imagine it or did he remove them? Follow up from the police only mentioned they found the photo of the second victim. 
• I always said that I expected his 'arc' to end, but I didn't expect him to die this early. I thought that he would at least stick around for some potential answers, even if incomplete, but we got nothing. 
• With him out of the picture this quick though, it does make more sense now that JH = BR, since why would you put a supporting character as one of the main faces of the show, including the intro?

Han Seo-Joon (HH)

Spoiler

• Just chilling in prison with his phone and wifi
• Say hello to my friend - mouse? or was he saying say hello to my accomplice for me when you find him/her?
• I've mentioned here before that I didn't want to believe that the little girl in Song Soo Jung's death was an accomplice, but I've been proven wrong. I thought that HH would think that he is better than anyone else and won't trust anyone to do or aid him in his dirty work, especially someone that isn't his real offspring. This does open up for me the possibility that not only are there multiple killers in the 7 deadly sins set of deaths, but that they are real accomplices as well. I was thinking before that if there were multiple killers, then one is just following or imitating the other or claiming the kill of the other, but now they could have really been working together. 

BR's aunt / BR's family

Spoiler

• Ever since he was a child, he never caused problems. Fact or is aunt hiding something as well?
• She menitioned BR's mom passed away in an accident on a rainy day. When? What point in BR's life?
• Picture of mom only of him as an infant. No other childhood photos shown yet. 
• Is she even real family?

 

Go Moo Chi

Spoiler

 

• Why make shooting his gun such an issue after everything they know about the case? And if not for shooting someone, what’s the point of having a gun? You can’t expect them to always go for non-lethal shots. I guess I kinda love it though, this isn’t the US.
• Was he thinking that everything is over now and he’ll now confront HH in prison? 
• Some are saying that the show has dumbed-down GMC after episode 6, but in my pov, his detective work is still way above everyone else in his unit. 

 

I put them in spoilers just to keep the post short. And of course, there's a lot more but just can't type everything atm. 🤣

 

[jeijei]

I'm deeply saddened by YH's death, not only because he's a hunky dude and an eye candy emo kid but because he looked convincingly depressed and repressed. He didn't look sinister at all. Not even charismatic. That's why I want to know more about him whether or not he's a killer. But alas, he's offed. 

 

 

 

 

[Warm Paws]

@jeijei yes, he's actually a very interesting character that made the show very dynamic.

 

I actually won't be surprised (and actually kinda hoping) that he's still alive though. They announced that he is dead, but if there are already some people in the hospital doing some shady business, then maybe that's just what they want the public to know. After all, it was just randomly mentioned in the press conference. 

 

In Viki subs, the two men that BY saw said "it's too bad, but we have no other choice. Anyway, JBR's surgery must be a success."

 

Now, before this scene was shown, we already knew that YH was dead, so the first thing that'll come to mind when they said "no other choice" is that they have to kill him...  But that's not necessarily what they could have meant. 

 

Unless they reveal on the next episode that they did somehow transplant YH's brain to BR's, then I'll low-key hope that he's still alive even if it seems like a very low chance. 🤣🤣 

[Darkarcana]

Regarding the flower pot, it seems that they are hiding it from us for a long time, there must be something big that happened that night and that flower plot...😓

 

That said, political talks have been discussed on whether whatever BR got for surgery is for political reasonings. What are you guys thoughts on this? @Tothestars @ktcjdrama @jeijei @Warm Paws

and also, do give your take on this:

[Warm Paws]

@Darkarcana re politics, I'm not sure what the current landscape is (both before and after the time jump). All I know is that it's the elections, so things can get real political. I'm not sure what Choi Young-Shin's (the lady govt official -CYS) current position and alliances are, but I just know that she's was on the psychopath gene test side. I know that she and Shin's dad (the one running for president) talked privately before, but it didn't feel to me that they were political allies.

 

Based on what I remember on episode 1, the scene cuts and transitions alluded that the one that called and had Dr. Lee picked up from the airport was CYS. And even if Dr. Lee told HH and his wife that he was sort of neutral with the politics, we do sort of know that of course he wants his project to be backed by the government. How deep CYS and Dr. Lee's involvement with the project together, we don't know, but I feel that CYS has a very deep (sinister even) involvement if she plans on using it for political purposes.

 

Also, the scene where CYS received the tape in the mail was right after CHJ found the set of tapes which makes us believe that she's the one that sent it to CYS, but we don't know that as a fact since the code on the tape wasn't shown when CHJ took it out. If CHJ was able to randomly find and enter that place, then who else could have done so before or after her? We don't know if it was sent to CYS for her to use as info, or leverage against her (blackmail).

 

re the list that you posted, I think I've touched on most of them in my recent previous post but I'll respond to #10:

If YH found something about JBR and it is contained in the genetic lab envelope, why would YH burn it? If that was the thing he was planning on telling CHJ, then why did he burn it? Especially since CHJ is in a unique position to expose JBR. 

[ktcjdrama]

Regarding Choi being able to enter the unlocked evidence room, I think it’s just because she is gutsy. The room is not locked because GMC was at the inner side of the room talking to another person. 
BR had to unlock the room because no one was in there. 

[Darkarcana]

25 minutes ago, Warm Paws said:

If YH found something about JBR and it is contained in the genetic lab envelope, why would YH burn it? If that was the thing he was planning on telling CHJ, then why did he burn it? Especially since CHJ is in a unique position to expose JBR. 

I found this list on Reddit and it seems pretty tight in terms of logic. This question is also on my head, it quite brain burning too. 😂 But I think it Low key makes sense on Pointer 1. Because we don’t know much about what happened. Again, BR pre surgery did state that both parents died and spread them to the ocean. So why didn’t he tell us that his mom left second and his dad first? Hmmmmm. But but,..logically it’s also okay for him not to say it. So I don’t know man. This drama is a big ‘I don’t know man’ mood 😂

 

On politics, I think it was speculated that HH and or DL are apart of this underground experimentation thing that happened, therefore they have scientific evidence that could possibly allows doctor to check if the fetus is in a psychopath.

[Warm Paws]

38 minutes ago, Darkarcana said:

This drama is a big ‘I don’t know man’ mood 😂

 

I know... even the "reveals" aren't reveals until 100% shown in all angles. 😆

 

Some BR = JH theories are saying the JH got amnesia somehow that's why he doesn't remember JE as his mother. If true... poor guy getting amnesia twice now. And if JH isn't YH, then it's amazing how JE's adopted son also turned out to be a genius kid that wanted to became a doctor that also acts as cold. I don't know if she's lucky or unlucky.

 

38 minutes ago, Darkarcana said:

On politics, I think it was speculated that HH and or DL are apart of this underground experimentation thing that happened, therefore they have scientific evidence that could possibly allows doctor to check if the fetus is in a psychopath.

 

Hmm.. but DL only found out that HH was a psycho after his research has already gotten to a stage that can be used by the government. So I'm thinking that it's him and someone from the government. If CYS is in on it, we don't know yet. I do remember the scene where an unknown lady was pleading to DL in the hotel lobby, which HH partially saw. And we don't know who's hair sample he had(?). So from these, I did already feel like DL is a bit shady and his research has an 'underground' part to it.

 

It's also why I'm still reserved from believing the two test results that were shown to us. DL never mentioned the percentage of positive tests he's gotten out of all tests he's done (sorry, I don't know the proper statistical terms) but I'm kinda surprised that 2 out 3 (possibly 3 out of 3) of the tests he had that day were positive. So either he faked the results, or only tested people that clearly had a high chance of getting positive (HH confirmed as psycho). It still bothers me that the good wife said that his husband told her before that her child was negative, but then she had to retake the test - around the same time as the other two - which then gave her a positive result. I'm thinking that at least only 2 of those are positive, and 1 was switched with the negative for whatever DL's political angle is. 

 

edit:

I also just thought that if HH is in on it, then it is without DL's knowledge. If HH is the one that sent the two mice to DL, then it kind of makes sense. DL was surprised at the mice, so I feel like he didn't know what it was about, and HH was just mocking him without telling him.

 

Whatever it is, maybe this is why someone wanted to take out DL, and why he thought he could trust whoever he was supposed to meet in the amusement park. He either knew too much, or he wasn't needed anymore... something like that.

Edited March 28, 2021 by Warm Paws

[Darkarcana]

Trailer~

 

[ktcjdrama]

27 minutes ago, Warm Paws said:

It still bothers me that the good wife said that his husband told her before that her child was negative, but then she had to retake the test - around the same time as the other two - which then gave her a positive result.

Did she retake the test? I was under impression that she only went to talk with DL, because turned out that husband lied to her about the test result. 

[Warm Paws]

3 minutes ago, ktcjdrama said:

Did she retake the test? I was under impression that she only went to talk with DL, because turned out that husband lied to her about the test result. 

 

Ah good question. I was under the impression that she did? But true, I just assumed it. Looking back at it, I don't even know if she saw the actual result that the husband received or it was just based on what is husband said to her. I assumed that they had a test, but then DL had her tested again which resulted positive. 

 

But still, I'd think that her husband was telling her the truth and it's DL that is capable of lying. 

[Darkarcana]

Next week both episodes are rated 19

 

[ktcjdrama]

2 hours ago, Darkarcana said:

Next week both episodes are rated 19

 

I laugh at this kind of changes. So if I were a 17 yo watching, I should skip these two episodes then? 😆

[Mouse]

Finally finished watching ep 7 and 8 and I’m hella confused. 
 

I’m starting to think that this isn’t about 1 psychopath but a story about psychopaths in their different forms. I feel like we’ve been busy trying to figure out who else is the psychopath apart from Han Seo Joon but now I’m inclined to think that there are actually several people potentially doing the murders. 

 

The man obsessed with Oh Bong Yi is a psychopath himself in a different way. 
 

I still feel that YH is Han Seo Jon’s son. I think that perhaps HSJ has been practicing brain surgery with mice and so maybe that’s what he attempted to do with BR and was successful. Why would he kill YH and save BR? Because YH was already a dead end. Meaning that he’s been caught. So maybe HSJ transferred a portion of YH’s brain to BR so that his “legacy” would live on. Maybe he hoped that YH would eventually take over BR’s nature and be able to continue with the killing spree.  If YH had survived, he would have ended up in prison like HSJ which would have been a dead end. But if he lived through BR, then he’d still be free. I don’t know - just a wild guess here. 
 

yes it’s possible that the memories are BR’s too but when he visits his home and remembers memories of him gardening and taking care of the Bird, he felt happy. It felt right. Which to me means it’s genuine. However when he remembers scenes of murders, he feels disturbed and uncomfortable which to me means that it doesn’t feel right to him. If he was fooling everyone by being kind - then when those memories came back of him taking care of animals, you’d think he would feel the same Emotions of faking it. But that’s not what he felt. 
 

I think too that there’s more to the pd Choi. I don’t understand what her obsession is with serial killers when a) HSJ is already in jail and b) Yo Han is already dead. Also, how does she know that Jae Pil didn’t kill Hyun Soo? I’m also still curious to find out how she ended up with YH to begin with. 
 

And why did Jae Pil lie about killing Hyun Soo? What did he have to gain?

 

Every episode of this drama just opens up more questions that giving us answers. 
 

 

[stroppyse]

Welcome to Mouse Appreciation Week!

 

This dark, twisty drama has us questioning the nature of psychopathy as we speculate on whether our protagonist is a hero, anti-hero or a villain! It keeps us coming back week after week to see where the story takes us. Thanks for being on this journey with us! And, if you haven't started watching yet, you totally should!

 

So, the key question is... do you think BaReum is a good guy or a bad guy or something altogether different? Let us know what you think! (If you have already, you can still speculate some more.)

 

Posts after this post will earn JangHaven points which can be used in the Member Shop. Points will be awarded at the end of this Event.

[Mouse]

Yay! Mouse appreciation event is on!! 

 

I still personally think that Ba Reum is a good guy. Yes, his kind and friendly demeanour could be a facade to hide his true colours but at the same time he didn’t have to go so far to do so many good deeds. He was helping animals even when no one was there to see it. And if he had been a psychopath from childhood, why is it that every person around him - his aunt, his friends - they all say he’s good through and through. 
 

I’ve mentioned this before but I also felt that when he was remembering his past when he went to visit his house, he had happy emotions. If he was faking it, then the same emotions of faking it would come to him. In contrast, when he recalls the memories related to beating someone up or killing someone, he feels disturbed. Also, he mentioned that his heart tingled when he saw Pd Choi - enough to ask his friend if he had feelings for her in the past. 
 

[ktcjdrama]

5 hours ago, Mouse said:

I still feel that YH is Han Seo Jon’s son. I think that perhaps HSJ has been practicing brain surgery with mice and so maybe that’s what he attempted to do with BR and was successful. Why would he kill YH and save BR? Because YH was already a dead end. Meaning that he’s been caught. So maybe HSJ transferred a portion of YH’s brain to BR so that his “legacy” would live on. Maybe he hoped that YH would eventually take over BR’s nature and be able to continue with the killing spree.  If YH had survived, he would have ended up in prison like HSJ which would have been a dead end. But if he lived through BR, then he’d still be free. I don’t know - just a wild guess here. 

My thoughts about YH and what happened to BR is along the same line as yours. 

 

I still think BR is the good guy. There are many scenes in earlier episodes that does not allow enough time for him to be the killer. There were obvious killings by YH but there were some not so obvious ones as well, but if I remembered correctly, no way could BR be the one doing the killings. I'm trying to rewatch certain part and make some notes. Hopefully can be done within this week and I can have a clearer idea... feels like preparing for exams, lol...

[Mouse]

51 minutes ago, ktcjdrama said:

My thoughts about YH and what happened to BR is along the same line as yours. 

 

I still think BR is the good guy. There are many scenes in earlier episodes that does not allow enough time for him to be the killer. There were obvious killings by YH but there were some not so obvious ones as well, but if I remembered correctly, no way could BR be the one doing the killings. I'm trying to rewatch certain part and make some notes. Hopefully can be done within this week and I can have a clearer idea... feels like preparing for exams, lol...

I actually rewatched the earlier episodes to see if I could see anything that I missed but it just left me tired and confused. Lol

I also think that if Ji Eun had switched the children, she wouldn’t have cried so hard for YH when he died. And she also repeatedly covered for him. And I would think too that if her true child were out there, she would have kept tabs on her son and would likely know where he was. So to me, YH really was HSJ’s son. 
 

Another thing is that if BR was the killer, even if he had lost his memory, his fake personality wouldn’t be dominant since it wouldn’t have been his true nature. If he forgot who he was, how could he fake being a good guy after he woke up since he doesn’t even know the type of person he was? We can see that even though he had lost his memories, he was still the kind guy we knew from before. If he really was the killer, then he would have woken up with the same cold personality.