Mouse 마우스 [2021]

[mademoiselle]

I'm done with episode 1 and 2. It's good so far! I've been reading up on character descriptions and checking both episodes on the timeline, as well as linking the child actors to their adult counterpart.

 

There were ~8 child actors in total that appeared in this episode.

 

Kindergarten male child (Seo Woo Jin) - The first child to appear in the beginning of episode 1. In year 2000, he and his classmates were at the Guryeong Anyal Theme Park which he feeds the rat to the snake. I assumed he is Jae Hoon at age 4 because in episode 2 the news reported Jae Hoon's family was killed in Guryeong.

 

Jae Hoon (Kim Kang Hoon) - 5 years later (2005), we see Jae Hoon enters the church.

 

After that it goes back to 10 years ago, which means we're in 1995.

 

Female Child (Park So Yi) - the female child who lures the lady to the car, which she said was her dad.

 

Moo Won and Moo Chi - The victims of Head Hunter's murder. These two we already know who they are in adulthood.

 

Jae Min (Kim Dong Ha) & Jae Hee (Ahn Seo Yeon) - Jae Hoon's half siblings from 2005. Regardless of whether one of them survived, Jae Hee isn't Bong Yi because Jae Hee appears to be autism from the way she speaks (I don't know how to put it in a less offensive way, sorry).

 

Oh Bong Yi (Joo Ye Rim) - Something happened to her 10 years ago (2010) and her grandma blamed herself for what happened to Bong Yi. We see that the perpetrator is another ahjussi, not Head Hunter.

 

Choi Hong Joo (Kyung Soo Jin) - Her character description said something happened 25 years ago. This would be 1995, so I assumed she was the female child who saw the murder played by child actress Park So Yi.

 

Dr. Sung Yo Han (Kwon Hwa Woon) - Character description didn't say much except there was a reason why he is so distant and quiet. Something happened to him when he was young, and it had always been haunting him. In addition, he's a genius.

 

As for who Jae Hoon grew up into... by the narration, we know he has embraced his killer urge. As Jae Hoon's upbringing showed us he's already this very calm and cold child, it is unlikely he would grow up into someone bubbly and friendly like Ba Reum. We could entertain the idea that it is a facade, I still think it's unlikely, mainly because Jae Hoon doesn't seem to care to hide his true self. Another clue we were given was that Jae Hoon has an IQ over 160. That's near genius or a genius according to Google.

 

Thus, the adult that seems most likely to be Jae Hoon is Sung Yo Han, whereas Ba Reum is likely the child who carries the psychopath gene but is the child of the parents whose are "good". These two men would have to be about the same age. Han Seo Joon's son should be around 24-25 years old whereas the baby carrying the psychopath gene would be few months younger. tvN was smart to hide the age of the characters so we wouldn't figure it out so soon, LOL.

 

As I didn't follow the news or watch any press conference etc., I don't know what is the direction of this drama is about. So far it seems like the drama is exploring the idea of whether or not a human with the psychopath gene will definitely become a psychopath. In this, I like to believe it depends on our upbringing.

 

It's interesting that the line "he looks like us" now carries a double meaning depending on interpretation. My thought on this line was more literal, as in it means Ba Reum thought he would look different being a psychopath, but Han Seo Joon looks just like a normal person.

 

I'm one who doesn't mind if Lee Seung Gi turns out to be the psychopath Jae Hoon (as long as the show can give us a good explanation esp. on his 180° personality change) or became a psychopath later. Either way, I think it's a nice change for Seung Gi who always play good guys.

 

 

[Darkarcana]

@SilverMoonTea 😏 he is a great supporter of Seung Gi hehe

@Warm Paws I think for now, we can wait for what is yet to come!

 

@mademoiselleYAYYYY! You are here! Woohoo!

same! I don’t mind him being a psychopath!

 

 

[Darkarcana]

 

[Mouse]

@mademoiselle so glad your joining us here!! 
 

I wonder though if the ahjussi that was arrested that seemed to trigger Bong Yi is actually the perpetrator in her case or if he simply reminds her of someone else. Either way, there is definitely trauma there and in what way that plays out in the story is yet to be seen. 

 

It doesn’t actually reveal which sibling (if any) survived Jae Hoon when he killed the family. It showed 3 bodies so I assume there is a survivor but it’s unclear if it’s the sister or the brother. If one of them indeed survived, I suspect the adult self will make an appearance at some point (if not already).

 

Like you, I also believe that the environment is what fosters the psychopath gene and not necessarily the gene itself. I think that’s the main question this drama is trying to address - do our genes dictate the type of people we become? And I also want to know if the mothers revealed to both boys that they carried the gene. In the voiceover we hear, one of them clearly knows about it but it’s not clear whether the other does. And whether knowing vs. not knowing has an impact. We know that the mind is very powerful thing and how we see ourselves impact our behaviour and actions. 

 

[Darkarcana]

1 minute ago, Mouse said:

I wonder though if the ahjussi that was arrested that seemed to trigger Bong Yi is actually the perpetrator in her case or if he simply reminds her of someone else. Either way, there is definitely trauma there and in what way that plays out in the story is yet to be seen. 

Something that affected her so badly...which might mean that the incident and crime done was huge. The perpetrator might still be in jail...so I figure that person is not the same person.

[mademoiselle]

12 minutes ago, Mouse said:

I wonder though if the ahjussi that was arrested that seemed to trigger Bong Yi is actually the perpetrator in her case or if he simply reminds her of someone else. Either way, there is definitely trauma there and in what way that plays out in the story is yet to be seen. 

10 minutes ago, Darkarcana said:

Something that affected her so badly...which might mean that the incident and crime done was huge. The perpetrator might still be in jail...so I figure that person is not the same person.

I thought she collapsed to the ground because the news said the man (name was mentioned but I forgot) was getting released?

12 minutes ago, Mouse said:

And I also want to know if the mothers revealed to both boys that they carried the gene. In the voiceover we hear, one of them clearly knows about it but it’s not clear whether the other does. And whether knowing vs. not knowing has an impact.

The voiceover we heard was Kim Kang Hoon, so Jae Hoon's mother told him about the gene. It is also very likely she told him a lot more after she strangled him. I wonder if she died then and there and then Jae Hoon killed the rest or it was another occasion. Man, so much details to check! xD

[Mouse]

@mademoiselle oh maybe I misunderstood because I thought the news was that of him

 being captured. I thought he was being incarcerated due to him having raped women? 
 

I really need to rewatch! 

[Tofu]

I was going to post this on discord, but got to make @Darkarcana some money....how did this thread move two pages since I was last here?! That's like 50 posts, because it's 25 posts per page. 

 

I was going to watch episode two before I go to bed tonight, but I might have to watch it in the morning. Not sure if it's the best idea to go to bed after watching Mouse. 

[Darkarcana]

25 minutes ago, mademoiselle said:

I wonder if she died then and there and then Jae Hoon killed the rest or it was another occasion. Man, so much details to check! xD

Honestly at this point we don't know what happened to the others like the investigator, the mother etc. All of them I want to know haha

 

Just really wish time can go by a little faster!

[Darkarcana]

I like this little theory 

@Mouse @mademoiselle it's cute!

Thinking about dynamic! It would be a beautiful scene if we watch Bong Yi begging for Ba Reum to get back together haha

[mademoiselle]

1 hour ago, Darkarcana said:

Thinking about dynamic! It would be a beautiful scene if we watch Bong Yi begging for Ba Reum to get back together haha

This sounds like Sugar's wish, not Sushi's. I thought Sushi wanted the Stranger From Hell kind of Lee Seung Gi? xD

[Darkarcana]

1 hour ago, mademoiselle said:

This sounds like Sugar's wish, not Sushi's. I thought Sushi wanted the Stranger From Hell kind of Lee Seung Gi? xD

👀Sugar is not supposed to take over the wheel...what have I done oh no... 

[Darkarcana]

@mademoiselleso you Wan Miss Sushi to be here?

😏 cool. Can!

[Darkarcana]

It makes sense actually @mademoiselle @Mouse

The watch will only come up if they get it from the inside. So....there is some chance that BR might hold it.....

[Darkarcana]

Holy moly there is no need of a description...

 

 

[Mouse]

Regarding the watch.. I am thinking that if it's not Ba Reum, it has to be someone who has access to the prison but also is able to go out. I don't think it's one of the prisoners but rather someone around them.

 

Also, the first murder victim.. the one in the gym.. was done out of anger.. but why? What was the relationship between the gym guy and the killer?

[Warm Paws]

2 hours ago, Darkarcana said:

Holy moly there is no need of a description...

 

 

After my partial rewatch, yeah, they are the same person. I actually feel like I wasn't attentive enough during my first watch now. 😆

 

SYH even had a photo of his younger self in yellow when he was in his room looking at his victim chart. (What do you call those things anyway? Map? Diagram?)  

 

After JH had the talk with the teacher because of the rabbit incident, JH stopped at the hallway because another kid caught his attention. That kid is most likely JBR.

 

2 hours ago, Mouse said:

Regarding the watch.. I am thinking that if it's not Ba Reum, it has to be someone who has access to the prison but also is able to go out. I don't think it's one of the prisoners but rather someone around them.

 

SYH visited HSJ/HH. That's the only possible way I can connect it for now. We don't know the timeline or chronological order of all the shots. The sequence in my theory right now is still kinda off though. I'll double check and expound maybe later.

 

2 hours ago, Mouse said:

Also, the first murder victim.. the one in the gym.. was done out of anger.. but why? What was the relationship between the gym guy and the killer?

 

The boxer's sister died at the hands of HH. She's the young woman that died in the snow, when the little girl asked for her help. That little girl is most likely Choi Hong-Ju (the reporter) as mentioned by @mademoiselle and because CHJ said the case of the boxer is special to her, more of a "responsibility" and how she looked at the sister's photo.

 

If JH's mom did tell him that he has psychopathic genes, then it's possible that she directly told him that his dad is the HH. And from what was shown of his past, JH was very cold and has no remorse BUT is very filial based on how he got jealous of the stepdad's care for their pets. So he might be doing his special MO killings (the FU to the cross killings) to get the attention of his dad or maybe he's trying to find out something. 

 

Like I said before, the last 2 victims were different from his MO kills, so I suspect that his style and intention changed because this is after he met HH. 

 

Assuming that the clues are correct and SYH is JH. We know that JH is able to suppress his emotions as shown in his polygraph test, but he does have a tendency to lose his cool. He gets annoyed real quick, even scratching himself because of his irritation. Also, as SYH, he got annoyed at the crying lady and basically said to her to kill herself. This guy needs to chill.

 

Spoiler

With that said. Here's one of my long shot predictions based on ep 1&2: HH will gain an increasing interest in JBR. SYH being jealous and all, will detest JBR because of that. SYH, unable to control his anger or to gain HH'S approval, will get sloppy and get caught somehow, maybe even by JBR. Who knows, maybe JBR even replaces SYH somehow after SYH'S downfall.

 

Edited March 6, 2021 by Warm Paws
quick grammar and typo edit

[joccu__]

I really loved the first 1 even though it was really dark. 

 

I have no theories yet. So I going to just enjoy this drama. And I hope that this drama will surprise me. 

[mademoiselle]

🤔 looks like the strangling & killing happenend on the same day (same clothes). The siblings were hiding upstairs.

 

Jae Hoon's mum surname is Sung. Show really wants us to think Sung Yo Han is Jae Hoon.

Edited March 6, 2021 by mademoiselle

[SilverMoonTea]

Jung Ba Reum, if he's either one son from the 2 pregnants lady, he will be having 4 possibilities :

 

1. 99% psycho - he just pretend to be naive & idiot.

2. 99% psycho - but dormant now, could be triggered to become real psycho. I think if something happens to Bong Yi, it might waken up his true nature. 

3. 99% psycho - but not dangerous. I believe in today our real society we have psychopath among us. They're normally can become CEO / surgeon due to their ruthless / cold nature, but still not breaking the law.

4. 1% normal - BR looked so soft & cute lols. Probably he really the lucky one? 

 

Actually Ko Mo Chi case also bring out other possibility, how about those with normal gene, but under severe trauma, could he snapped and become the real psycho? 

 

I've read Charles Manson's case. I think this show perhaps a bit inspired by CM :

- CM is a cult leader - he have some believe about doomsday bound to happen. 

- Sharon Tate murder (wife of film director) - CM follower left some scribble blood word in the door. 

- CM didn't murder directly, its his follower who do the job. The prosecutor become famous as its not easy to prove the indirect murder. 

Here, Mouse we seems to have : pastor, drama director wannabe, probably not only 1 psychopath, scribbled blood written, and some religious hater. 

 

Seung Gi picked up good & solid script this time. Ep 1 / 2 didn't dissapoint. 

P.s - By right he should have higher chance being psycho, and higher chance for you to get the "Dark Seung Gi" @Darkarcana

[Warm Paws]

8 minutes ago, SilverMoonTea said:

1. 99% psycho - he just pretend to be naive & idiot.

2. 99% psycho but dormant now - could be triggered to become real psycho. I think if something happens to Bong Yi, it might waken up his true nature. 

3. 99% psycho - but not dangerous. I believe in today our real society we have psychopath among us. They're normally can become CEO / surgeon due to their ruthless / cold nature, but still not breaking the law.

4. 1% normal - BR looked so soft & cute lols. Probably he really the lucky one? 

 

This is why I want to clarify the meaning of the percentages so that we understand the rules the show works in, but everytime the Dr. Lee talks about it, it's always just one liners. 😂 My understanding of the test is that, if they detect the psycho gene, they are 99% sure it is the psycho gene but there's a 1% chance that it can be the genius gene and not the psycho gene. What kind or the intensity of being a psycho is a different metric altogether, but it seems Dr. Lee can get data for that too since he keeps saying the "top 1% of psychopaths" 

 

Hopefully the show brings this up a bit more, but right now there's a lot of holes.

 

27 minutes ago, SilverMoonTea said:

Actually Ko Mo Chi case also bring out other possibility, how about those with normal gene, but under severe trauma, could he snapped and become the real psycho? 

 

Based on the conversation between Go Mu-Chi and the HH, I think this is another angle the show is going for, especially since he 'acts' or 'tries to act' crazy like with the guy he chased to the rooftop, and he did kill someone before (the murderer of the sisters, as mentioned by HH).

[Warm Paws]

Here's the continuation (or maybe a branch of) my long-shot theory, since anything is possible at this point, I'll just put it out here. It's kinda comical because of the comparison, but it still does have potential.

 

Spoiler

 

The Headhunter sees Jung Ba-Reum's potential tempts him to turn to the dark side - I mean, embrace his psychopathic urges. To awaken Jung Ba-Reum's dark side, he let's Sung Yo-Han provoke and challenge JBR. SYH at the very end, has a change of heart and saves Jung Ba-Reum from completely turning psycho.

 

Star Wars comparison aside, I think that the show can also go with the angle that psychopaths can have their humanity restored. I was surprised to see how the show insists so much that psychopaths are born as psychopaths. SYH from the very beginning has had psychopathic urges, and he embraced it as he grew up thinking that he is like that by design, so maybe the show will also give him a chance to redeem himself. 

 

 

[stroppyse]

Just finished watching episode 1 since @Darkarcanaand @Mouse were talking so much about it, but seriously, what did I just watch? Episode 1 was just so dark, dark, dark.

 

There does seem to be a vibe about whether psychopathy is a genetic thing or a nurture thing. Even though both mothers gave birth to their children, Jae Hoon was probably made to feel different from the very beginning, especially if his mother couldn't show him the love and affection he needed, whereas the other child was probably smothered with love given that he was the only offspring of a beloved husband.

 

From the comments here, I take it that there will be a mystery when they are adults of which one is Jae Hoon. I bet it's going to be suspenseful, and I wonder how the production will have Jae Hoon be murderous while hiding his identity.

 

One other thing, the youngsters were so fantastic. It was a bit jarring to see Kim Kang Hoon play the psychopathic youngster, but he's always so impressive as an actor and thought he did well.

 

Wondering if I want to launch into episode 2 immediately, or give it a rest for awhile from all that awfulness and blood.

 

 

 

[Mouse]

@Warm Paws I like the way you summarized the percentages because that is how I understood it too. What doesn’t make sense to me though is if Prof. Daniel is saying that only the top 1% of those with the psychopath gene ends up being serial killers, then that’s a very very low case for approval. Basically saying that the accuracy of the gene diagnosis is only 99% and only 1% of that ends up being serial killers. So how do you isolate the top 1% then? That’s the part that throws me off about his study. 
 

 

[mademoiselle]

45 minutes ago, Mouse said:

@Warm Paws I like the way you summarized the percentages because that is how I understood it too. What doesn’t make sense to me though is if Prof. Daniel is saying that only the top 1% of those with the psychopath gene ends up being serial killers, then that’s a very very low case for approval. Basically saying that the accuracy of the gene diagnosis is only 99% and only 1% of that ends up being serial killers. So how do you isolate the top 1% then? That’s the part that throws me off about his study.

Hmm, there's no way we can isolate that 1% then, at least not until they grow up and exhibit killing tendencies? Perhaps this is what the drama is exploring?

 

Side note: Wasn't there a saying that there is a thin line between genius and madness. I can't help but apply this to genius vs psycho.

Edited March 7, 2021 by mademoiselle