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I was reading weibo, did I miss the information that Daniel Lee has a long lost dongsaeng? Not the one in UK killed by Han Seo Joon, but in Korea he was looking for (maybe real blood related) dongsaeng? Weibo (subbers) are discussing this.

 

I use dongsaeng because atm not clear whether it's brother or sister.

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5 hours ago, mademoiselle said:

I refuse to wreck my brain cells for this and just gonna wait another week to be informed what this is all about, hahaha!

 

Who's going to join me trying to figure out what the 'standard' of the victims is? I think it's something fun to do till next week, then it'll be revealed in the first 5 mins of ep5. 

 

Here's my current theory after ep4:

Spoiler

I still think that JBR is innocent at this point. I feel like that scene is a 'flash-forward' to the end of their investigation, and he's there cause they already caught YH, or at least know that he's the predator and they already raided YH's house. 

 

Dunno why I put theories in spoilers, but I guess kinda adds to the suspense. 😆 

@mademoiselle I'm not sure. I don't remember anything that suggests that he has another sibling, or that he was missing someone else.

 

He had a picture of himself with Jennifer and Han Seo Joon in his wallet, so it felt to me that he only had her. 

 

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33 minutes ago, Warm Paws said:

Who's going to join me trying to figure out what the 'standard' of the victims is? I think it's something fun to do till next week, then it'll be revealed in the first 5 mins of ep5. 

Me! Shoot me your theories!


I feel, the murderer is doing it for audience some victims do have an audience. Box killer, Mukbang Girl, potentially the Kid. This is how he spread fear. That said, his standards are usually someone whom he can tussle but not full blown fights. So decent size person.

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Ok. If we look in the view of YH. What if he kills the people for justice? DL’s experiment defamed a lot of innocent children. Children should be spared even though they are psychopaths. As for Grandma. Grandma was never intended. But this revelation can act as a bait for YH to figure out something. Ba Reum. Is he a psychopath(?) That said, after the incident, he went in to his room to kill him, not because to silence him, but because he knows that Ba Reum is scary and have the potential to cause harm. He is doing it for justice, but Bong Yi came in just in time.
 

 

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I'm still confused when it's safe not to put spoilers tag, but just to be sure.

 

Standards theories:

 

Spoiler

 

Victim #1 : boxer - gloves

Victim #2 : lady left in sewer - ring

Victim #3 : homeless man - shoe

Victim #4 : Chi Kook - watch/ clothes

Victim #5 : lady in vineyard - ?

Victim #6 : person in factory - coffee?

Victim #7 : Dr Daniel Lee - ? 

Victim #8 : Grandma - pin

 

And the 2 others that I'm not sure if he included.

 

Victim #9 : YH's friend (not yet known during the call)

Victim #10 : goat kid

 

Theory#1

First I thought 'Religion' since that's related to the MO of the predator. But I don't really see how he'll know that for other victims. Only ones I think are Religious or Catholic are:

 

Victim #1 : bible in shelf

Victim #4 : close to the priest

Victim #8 : only clear one

 

This kinda fails if YH is indeed the caller and did everything. How would he know grandma's? 

 

Theory#2

My second and main theory at this point is that they all have lost family members, especially dad's or father figures.

 

Victim #1 : only had his mom in flashbacks

Victim #2 : Single mom?

Victim #3 : no family? 15 days no one looked for him

Victim #4 : only his mom is mentioned that visits him

Victim #5: maybe he found a clue in one of her mukhang videos

Victim #6 : no one looked for him

Victim #7 : lost sister. Also, only his mom is mentioned

Victim # 8 : lost her kids? And probably safe to assume that she already lost both of her parents. 😆

Victim # 9 : ??? If it's YH, then he'll probably know this one.

Victim #10 : lost or abandoned by his dad

 

 

Thanks @Darkarcana hehe. The 'standards' thing is on my mind more than the ep 4 end reveal.

 

Though it will ultimately be fruitless to try and figure it out, it's still fun! 

I think I'll just put spoilers on my theories in the future. Makes the posts shorter 😅 

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12 hours ago, Warm Paws said:

 

Who's going to join me trying to figure out what the 'standard' of the victims is? I think it's something fun to do till next week, then it'll be revealed in the first 5 mins of ep5. 

 

Here's my current theory after ep4:

  Reveal hidden contents

I still think that JBR is innocent at this point. I feel like that scene is a 'flash-forward' to the end of their investigation, and he's there cause they already caught YH, or at least know that he's the predator and they already raided YH's house. 

 

Dunno why I put theories in spoilers, but I guess kinda adds to the suspense. 😆 

@mademoiselle I'm not sure. I don't remember anything that suggests that he has another sibling, or that he was missing someone else.

 

He had a picture of himself with Jennifer and Han Seo Joon in his wallet, so it felt to me that he only had her. 

 

 

@mademoiselle @Warm Paws During Dr. Daniel’s visit to HSJ, the former casually asked Dr. Daniel if he found his younger brother.

 

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He answered he is still searching and did not find him yet. I hope his brother will seek justice for his death. 

 

They also discussed about the bill and Dr. Daniel confirmed that it was rejected.

 

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While going back to this episode, I think that the gov’t official questioning the chairman’s decision of voting against the bill will serve as a warning and a possible death of the chairman’s son who is now a police officer as well and especially that the chairman is now planning to run for presidency. If @Darkarcana’s theory is right about the victims having followers/audience, then the politician’s son is a perfect prey.

 

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Spoiler

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It will be a boomerang!.

Edited by Darkarcana
Please move the forth and or more photos into spoilers. Thank you!
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9 minutes ago, Warm Paws said:

My second and main theory at this point is that they all have lost family members, especially dad's or father figures

Ok I will counter this

Spoiler

The vineyard case, she was basically picked off the road, so there is no time to understand her background. I think the killer have a specification in mind. A single specification. 

 

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1 minute ago, Darkarcana said:

The vineyard case, she was basically picked off the road, so there is no time to understand her background. I think the killer have a specification in mind. A single specification. 

 

Hmm. I feel like he has pre-picked most of his victims. Like he was in his monologue while stalking the vineyard lady, but who knows from when he was stalking her? I was thinking he already has a set of potential victims, but just chose the easy one that night.

 

Thanks for reminding me of the attempt on Ba Reum. If he did kill him, we know that he lost his dad as well. 

 

Thanks @Seung-Min!! I completely missed that part. 🤔

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By the way in episode 4, Ba Reum mentioned to Bong Yi that he spread his parent's ashes in the sea. The house was also bought thanks to his parent's insurance after they died.  (Unless I have translation issues from VIU)

 

If he is the baby of the second mom, he should have mentioned "mom". His father died before he was born. Unless his mom remarries. Interestingly, Bong Yi noticed the photo with his mom in the living room. No photos of his dad.

 

For Yohan, there is no indication yet the he is fond of animals. It was always Ba Reum.

 

So my hunch is

Spoiler

Makjang!!! They switched babies !! :GrimChamp:

 

 

 

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2 hours ago, Darkarcana said:

The vineyard case, she was basically picked off the road, so there is no time to understand her background. I think the killer have a specification in mind. A single specification.

 

This also debunks your theory though, if she was really just randomly picked off the road, how would he know she's a Youtuber? Most of them don't have an audience as well, especially the homeless person that nobody even knows even after all the investigating.

 

Spoiler

It can't be the person's build as well, since he killed grandma, and kidnapped the child. Even if he killed grandma because of the unintinded situation, I don't think he'll say "oh, she's just a special case, don't mind her", so there must be something that he knew or understood about her the short time he was with her. (assuming YH is the suspect for everything) And, if it were about the audience, I don't think it'll be just because they have an audience, but there must be something with the content of what they show to their audience as well.

 

Which brings me to how I started with my theory:

 

I think the kid (he's literally a young goat now, lol) is crucial and should also have that standard. Why make a fuss about standards when the current one you're holding doesn't have it? The reason the kid is famous is because of his segment about his dad. His dad abandoned him but he doesn't hate him. He still misses and loves his dad.

 

From what I've gathered so far, all of the victims don't have dads, or they were not mentioned. 

 

Jae Hoon does have resentment with both his real dad and stepdad, and right now I don't think his relationship with the HH is exactly 'nice' (can't think of a word). We do know that he has this longing for a "father figure", like how he chose to go to church and speak to The Father and 'offers' his victims to him. Maybe he asks himself something like "is this how a non-psychopath without his father supposed to live?" 

 

Hopefully though, I hope the 'standards' is something that the show already has given hints on, and not something out of the blue. 

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I just finished ep 4.

 

I am also think no way they reveal the killer too soon, we only given pieces of scene, not a complete one, like when Song YoHan meet Han SeoJoon, HSJ said SYH is his son. But SYH just stay silence.

 

When SYH had dinner with his mom which HSJ's ex wife, they talked about marriage and grandson, SYH said HSJ third generation? So HSJ's son may not as pyschopath as HSJ. But SYH mom crying after that sigh... 

 

So I have this crazy extreme idea:

what if HSJ's wife switch his son to the Researcher's Son? They both only different few months old, since she thought that her son is more likely to be a pyschopath. But turns out the real pyschopath is the researcher's son, so she cried regreting what she has done. That is why she said to Dr. Daniel that he was wrong, but her hands was trembeling. Because she knew her son is become the good one and the one she raised is the evil one. So SYH is not HSJ son but researcher son. JBR is HSJ son.

 

But...lol

 

I also thought Jong Ba Reum might be is the psychopath, here are my thoughts:

1. We never know his family, he said their parents died and he cremated them, and he got the house from the life insurance? (Sorry i forget about this one).

 

2. When the killer killed Bong Yi's grandmother, it said, the victim is too weak, no fun at all, no struggle, what if because the victim recognize the killer, which grandmother killed by Ba Reum, she never expected it was him. Ba Reum read the text that grandmother found the victim photo, i think he thought grandmother saw it from his house. So he killed her after they met. Song YoHan witnessed it.

 

3. In the 1st ep, HSJ couple times watching JBR, first from far, 2nd from the audience seat and last face to face with JBR in the stage. I think HSJ recognize his psychopath Empty Eyes, but he also found JBR a bit different, he has learned some lively normal people expresions. I think he imitated Na ChiGuk kindness. Choi PD said she recognized JBR as the kind citizen, but JBR said the real person was NCG, but at the end it was JBR who recieved the award. So NCG most likely was killed by JBR, he hates NCG for being rude to HSJ.

 

I dont understand the death of Kim YeungSoon, Song YoHan's friend, though.

 

Okay i will get insane from watching this. Cheers to that!

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Hello, I'm here to share what I've read/found from C-community.

 

-- Episode 1 --

 

There is a mistranslation in English sub for the scene Han Seo Joon asked whether Daniel Lee found his "little brother".

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In this sentence, Han Seo Joon actually said "dongsaeng". As some of you know, "dongsaeng" is a generic word meaning younger sibling - it includes both sexes so it could mean either a younger brother or a sister. However, the Eng sub just translate it to "little brother". In addition, Daniel tells Han Seo Joon an international organisation named Holt International was helping him search and they haven't found the dongsaeng.

 

This dongsaeng is highly likely not the sister Han Seo Joon killed because her body was found and we know Han Seo Joon faked it as robbery. Not sure if this little information would play any big part in the grand scheme of the plot.

 

-- Episode 2 --

 

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Spoiler

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Another scene lost in transcription - The English subs (from where I watched it from) didn't transcribe everything from the newspaper article. We were only told a Guryeong family was murdered and the suspect could be Jae Hoon. However, what we didn't know was the family was consumed in fire.

 

It is therefore speculated that the champion boxer tried to revenge Han Seo Joon by killing Jae Hoon's family and commit arson. This would also explain why Yo Han/Jae Hoon burnt him and underlined in the bible it was "an eye for an eye".

---

 

I think it is not incorrect for Ba Reum to say his parents were cremated and he used the life insurance to buy the house. They can both still be cremated but at different timelines (which explain there's only picture of Ba Reum with Omma) and both did leave their life insurance for him. Most of the time we would say "부모님 (bumu-nim / parents)" as a generic reference to mean either one or both of our parents.

 

Standard for killing

Hmm I don't know. Since Yo Han is angry at God and keeps giving God middle finger salute using his victims, could the standard be they are all believers of God? A bit too easy/simple maybe?

 

 

Edited by Darkarcana
Please move the forth and or more photos into spoilers. Thank you!
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11 hours ago, Warm Paws said:

 

Though it will ultimately be fruitless to try and figure it out, it's still fun! 

 

Still hesitant to actually share my theories because we are still on ep. 4 but I’ll agree that it is indeed fun to try playing “detective” and whether we are right or wrong, having something to look back (personal theories formulated) before the big reveal is exciting.

 

Now here are my theories about JBR’s true identity based on four episodes. I don’t know if my theories were already mentioned before coz again, I did not have the luxury of time to read back except for latest pages.

 

Finally,  I get to use this spoiler box for the first time. hahaha The last time, I mentioned about not being sure if BR is JH or maybe, his stepfather’s death is just self-defense. Now, I am gearing towards BR as the psychopath killer who killed his step-father but still out of self-defense and he did not kill his mom and siblings. If@mademoiselle is right about his family being burned to death, it could probably be the reason he killed the boxer and it is actually his first ‘crime’.

 

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Spoiler

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Seeing the silhouette of the killer here made me think of BR not YH.

 

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Spoiler

1. JBR is the young Jae Hoon. Growing up, he discovered that the only way to hide his past and true identity is to act in the total opposite and being a psychopath, he wants to be in control. Therefore, becoming a police officer is all planned. After all, it’s good to keep your friends close and enemies, closer. 

 

2. If I will trust my hunch, I am convinced that JBR is just really “acting.” I think SG did a good job in acting in a way that audience will be doubtful if he is just too good to be true or he is indeed the innocent and upright man that he portrays. However, I think there were also many times that the director purposely focus his facial reactions for people to notice his controlled smirk, his cunning eyes, his calculating look or in short, his poker face. (I wish I can point out every scene I find his reaction/acting fishy but I cannot do this coz it will take too much time😅 and if my hunch is wrong then like @Warm Paws said, it will be fruitless. Hahaha  

 

I will share this particular scene though, maybe it’s just me overanalyzing things but in this scene, when MC visited Na Chi Kook, I am seeing mocking eyes, and a psychopath who really doesn’t care and feel empathy but is trying to act it out.

 

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The reason for killing NCK must probably be related to how NCK views psychopath, or how he try to become upright and good civil worker? or how he seemed to be a showoff, being interviewed by the media despite BR actually receiving an award? Can’t think of any solid connection with NCK’s stabbing yet but I do think, BR has a grudge on him. Especially if BR is JH then JH already told his teacher how irritated he is when he can tell that the person is branding him as different by the way they (including the teacher) look at him. I am planning actually to rewatch just to see if BR is wearing short sleeve because I want to see scars from scratching. I always notice him wearing long sleeve.

 

In the latest preview, SG with his expressionless face is the one that gave me goosebumps. His haunting look is too disturbing and because of that, I am convinced that he is indeed a psychopath killer. Actors are often told that if they want to be effective actors, when the camera is rolling, they should immerse themselves in the character that people will not feel they are just “acting it out”. BR with a good, innocent persona is SG purposely “acting/pretending” while BR with his true psychopath identity felt like really being him. Not acting in anyway.

 

SG being nosy and throwing questions to OBY’s grandmother is also fishy to me. While asking, he didn’t look like a dumb person there. He had intelligent questions really intended to make the grandmother confess but the grandmother did not reveal the truth even if he likes BR for her grand daughter. OBY character’s description mentioned about seeing the killers face when she was young. Is it really the captivated criminal that she saw? Is it somehow related to BR as well? Thus, he asked the grandmother not really out of curiosity but for scrutiny.

 

 For the grandmother’s death, I don’t know with you but I did not see the killers face and it was purposely not revealed, not even a little part of his face. We can only hear the monologue which will make us think it is YH if we based it on how we saw grandmother’s discovery of the picture. I will agree to @Tothestars theory no. 2.

 

From watching the latest preview, I still can’t say BR eventually killed the kid during the live show or netizens also playing detective Conan were true about the kid in the monitor as not the real kid and it was a staged show. However, if they indeed staged the show, what good will it bring? It will only provoke whoever is the real culprit and will put the child’s life in danger. It still too early to reveal BR as the psychopath though but with how the story is unfolding, I think the writer is definitely not a fan of running around the bush.

 

BR’s character old description

Jung Ba-reum (Lee Seung-gi) - 

He is a rookie detective who lost all of his memory after an accident. When he wakes up from the accident, he gets a special ability who can see and read killers’ thoughts and ways."

 

This might mean, this special ability is just to fool the police, mislead them and/or lure them, and BR will definitely have fun manipulating them until he will be caught by MC. 

 

Still can’t connect YH relationship to BR but I’m not ruling out the theories already shared in this forum;

 

1. Baby switching

2. A. YH as BR’s accomplice thus he was told to throw Dr. Daniel’s dead body after being killed by BR.

        Assuming that Dr. Daniel called YH for meet up, I noticed his worried look seeing Dr. Daniel’s car and him being in a hurry to climb the gate (so Dr. Daniel also climb the gate? Therefore, the meeting is very suspicious for Dr. Daniel to agree meeting up in a close carnival 🤔). YH seemed to be in hurry to see Dr. Daniel. If he did not kill him then he was told to throw the body instead. YH in a vulnerable state, telling P.D Choi he was afraid and wanting to hug her can actually explain it although who knows if he is just acting as well. 

    B. SH belonging to 1% genius gene and the researcher’s son.

 

 

Disclaimer: The views and opinions of yours truly is purely based in my limited intellect and not necessarily true. 

 

Hahahah 

 

Anyway, killers uniform (black hoodie and black cap) is very common in crime/thriller genre that the next time I’ll see someone wearing them will definitely give me goosebumps 😬

 

Edited by Darkarcana
Please move the forth and or more photos into spoilers. Thank you!
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I love that you guys are speculating about Ba Reum being bad, actually I will put my thoughts on the speculation of the last scene of ep 4 later...

:heart:
 

Reminder:

I would like to remind the mouse team to kindly place the fourth picture onwards in the spoiler tab so as to ease other uses connection bandwidth issues so that they will load faster thank you!

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3 hours ago, mademoiselle said:

Another scene lost in transcription - The English subs (from where I watched it from) didn't transcribe everything from the newspaper article. We were only told a Guryeong family was murdered and the suspect could be Jae Hoon. However, what we didn't know was the family was consumed in fire.

 

It is therefore speculated that the champion boxer tried to revenge Han Seo Joon by killing Jae Hoon's family and commit arson. This would also explain why Yo Han/Jae Hoon burnt him and underlined in the bible it was "an eye for an eye".

 

Ah this one i never put in my mind, since i really depends on engsub... 

 

Yeah current Lee Seung Gi's skill is not for an easy character like current JBR (ep 1-4), he has to be more than that. So his character as he described in interview, really a different one.

 

But what if we being fooled by the script writer, the one we thought the pyschopath is not the really is, but can be also, the pyschopath yes he was being revealed from the beginning, he is the real killer pyschopath, but in facts we have been given so many hints that lead us not thinking SYH might not the real pyschopath, then the killer is the other main character which is JBR. Mind games lol. PO might be the psychopath too then... So far the drama has dragged us to focus on the story HJS's son is the pyschopath. The government's son and the researcher's son are not?

 

@Seung-Min  who is SH? 

 

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I think the fact that we can’t seem to figure out the true nature of its characters tells me that the drama is doing an excellent job for a murder mystery. 
 

I am still hoping that BR is not the serial killer. But each episode does an amazing job of teasing the possibility that it’s him. 
 

Up to this point we get “close enough” clues so that we can point the finger at someone whether it’s Yo Han or BR. But because it never really shows the actual murder, it’s hard to tell who’s actually doing the killing and who just happens to arrive right after. 
 

Whoever the killer is, it doesn’t seem random to me. It feels like there’s always a reason for his targets. Whether he has personal grudge against the victim or he’s using the person in a way that gets him the attention he wants. 

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4 hours ago, mademoiselle said:

We were only told a Guryeong family was murdered and the suspect could be Jae Hoon. However, what we didn't know was the family was consumed in fire.

 

It is therefore speculated that the champion boxer tried to revenge Han Seo Joon by killing Jae Hoon's family and commit arson. This would also explain why Yo Han/Jae Hoon burnt him and underlined in the bible it was "an eye for an eye".

 

Ahhh. Subs.... Thanks @mademoiselle for the info.

 

This is pretty big if true. Especially since some are saying that JH didn't kill the stepdad because of his position in the stairs, and we only saw him take out the knife and not actually stab him, and they're speculating that someone else could have been upstairs that killed the stepdad.

 

But a lot of things don't quite fit right for me, and some possible answers lead to further questions.

  1. Why would the boxer attack the stepdad and kids first? 
  2. If there was another attacker upstairs, what happened to him/ them? 3 body bags meaning there were possibly 2 attackers, or 1 attacker and 1 of the siblings died. So if 1 sibling died, where is he/she?
  3. I don't think JH will take revenge cause someone killed his step family. I don't think he had that much attachment with them in the first place.

The only logical thing I can think of for now is this: The mom did it. 

 

Analysis follows: 

Spoiler

 

I would not have thought of this after watching episode 1-2, but ep 3-4 sort of connects the dots. Now knowing that she is alive and well with her flower business, and JH is also a pretty successful doctor - both pretty normal lives considering their double whammy past - I'm starting to believe that the mom did the cover up or even caused JH to kill the stepdad. It's very suspicious what happened after the mom was strangling JH. It would have made sense if she died as well, but she's alive, so where was she when JH killed the stepdad?

 

My speculation of what transpired is something like this: The mom came to back to her senses, realized what she was doing, and let her son go. The brother who went home earlier told the stepdad what happened, which prompted the stepdad to attack JH when he got back to the house. Mom protected JH like usual, stepdad has had enough and hits her which finally prompts JH to become aggressive. Dunno why he would kill the siblings though, but maybe he went on a frenzy or just really hated the brother for being a tattletale. 

 

The mom knew everything will be over for both of them, so she just decided to burn everything down to cover it up.  

 

 

Analysis above still has lots of holes though. In any case, I think if the news report says it was arson, then it must lead to how HH's wife is able to carry on with her life like she has in episode 3 onwards. After all, if her son on the list of suspects but was removed after passing the polygraph test, then HH's wife would be next on the list? 

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@Warm Paws It actually occurred to me as well that it may be the mom that’s doing the killings and YH might just be protecting her since she protected him as a child. But if she killed the family and then burned them, then why would the boxer’s murder be out of revenge? 
 

one thing I noticed in ep 1, when Jae Hoon’s stepdad was beating him, his mother shielded him with her body. That’s very telling to me. Bec that meant that she loved him despite knowing his nature. 
 

It also just occurred to me that if the boxer’s murder was done out of revenge, doesn’t that seem contradictory to the nature of a psychopath? I thought they are incapable of feeling empathy and emotion. I would think that a revenge murder is an emotion-driven murder. So that to me is confusing. The murder of the runner or the woman under the tunnel would make more sense. 

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32 minutes ago, Mouse said:

It also just occurred to me that if the boxer’s murder was done out of revenge, doesn’t that seem contradictory to the nature of a psychopath? I thought they are incapable of feeling empathy and emotion. I would think that a revenge murder is an emotion-driven murder. So that to me is confusing. The murder of the runner or the woman under the tunnel would make more sense. 

 

It said in ep 4, a psychopath has his/her own categories in choosing victims aka profiling, so i think the current psychopath is killing based on someone's past history and do the revenge, or based on victims's guilt and kill them as revenge because he think nobody can, and relating them to God (bible, cross). So this psychopath is doing Robin Hood's killing. 

 

I wonder about HSJ's killing profile? And what if the psychopath is not only one lol or... What if HSJ's wife is tracking the researcher's family, she might not switch ther son, but at the end his son found out about the other "99% psycho gen kid" so they made friends. After i read @Mouseand @Warm Paws thoughts i am starting to think the mom has done something major resulting the born of new pyschopath.

 

Or...Since HSJ's son Jae Hoon has known about his "99% psycho gen" and realized he has turned into a monster too, and wonder what about the other kid, the "99% pyscho gen" kid. So he tried to find the kid, because he was curious.

Edited by Tothestars
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